I didn’t know England had their own Mike Johnson.
“Try to interfere” does make a lot more sense than the idea that they’re the ones to blame for it.
Whilst Britain’s fuckups are mainly homegrown, it makes total sense that an adversary which tends to do that kind of thing would try and nudge them along.
I fear none of us paid anywhere near as much attention to Eastern Europe as we should have.
Given how tight the result was it is not unreasonable to believe that Russia tight tip the scale. It idms not certain but entirely possible.
Well, it makes just as much sense to blame Indian nationalists who had been long enough in Britain to also get British nationality and voted Leave because they thought immigrants from the EU were competing with immigrants from India (yeah, I knew one such person in Britain when I lived there) or people like the Polish immigrant in Britain interviewed on TV who was pro-Leave because she basically wanted to pull the ladder up now that she was in.
I mean, there is a lot of variously sized categories of assholes you can choose to blame, though arbitrarily picking any on specifically and saying “this is the one who tipped the scales” seems like a poor way to choose somebody to blame for it.
The way I see it, what makes most sense is that blame is proportionate to contribution, which brings me around to the politicians fucking up the country for decades even whilst using “blame the EU” as a get out of jail free card for the consequences of their own policies, the ultra-rich who owned most of those politicians and couldn’t stop themselves from pillaging the nation even when things got really bad in the 2008 Crash (hence why the politicians enacted Austerity AND tax cuts for the rich, which mostly hurt those whose income came from work to help those who income came from Asset ownership), the newspaper and TV channel billionaires whose news-media companies kept pushing Jingoism, anti-EU and anti-Immigration messaging and the politicians who shamelessly pushed for Leave during the actual Referendum with lie, after lie, after lie, manipulating people who had been brainwashed their whole lives into believing Nationalistic Delusions Of Grandeur and who hence did not question things like “because of Britain’s importance, when we leave the EU will give us the same rights as an EU member states without the obligations”.
Also, of course, never forget that a bit over 30% of Britons who explicitly went out and voted Leave - one can hardly exonerate people for actually acting in some way when nobody forced them to.
Of course, the people now telling British newspapers that “Russia interfered in Brexit” are “winners” in the very system that made Britain be as it is - having way more wealth and privilege as the average Briton - so they’re not going to, for example, point at the Rothermere family or Rupert Murdoch and say that the pro-Leave messaging in their newspapers was probably a much more powerful force pushing Britons to become against the EU over the year and ultimately made so many vote Leave than all the foreign influence combined, much less criticize the way the British System is right now with it’s low social mobility and high inequality.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from living in Britain for more than a decade is that when a posh person says something “controversial” to the mainstream media, they’re doing so in a very calculated way to distract people away from something else or to influence people in a certain way (so in this case, maybe it’s because the Labour government fucked up badly or their new leader is still as much a Terrorist-law-abusing pro-Israel fascist in sheep’s wool as the last one, or maybe it’s to shore up support for Ukraine in Britain by reminding people of the character of present day Russia).
UK just realized this now? im pretty sure it was known since 2016, and every since then.
Try or did?
Did successfully
It was 52% to 48%. They could have flipped the outcome.
It wasn’t even binding. Getting the politicians to enforce it was the real crime.
I wonder how he can say it had little impact
Yeah, this is the tough part. Even if they only influenced 2% of the vote, that was enough to make or break it.
Reactionary Media is the UK’s largest international export. Everyone loves to throw a fit over Vladimir Putin. Nobody wants to acknowledge Rupert Murdoch, Robert Maxwell, Jonathan Harmsworth, or Paul Marshall.
Same with the damned yankees. You’re choking yourself to death on home grown AI slop fresh off the Mark Zuckerberg Shrimp Jesus Machine, but it’s evil foreigners who are to blame when you elect a new Ronadl Reagan.
Nobody wants to acknowledge Rupert Murdoch,
What ? he’s universality parihed across many nations, quite the achievement
Robert Maxwell
certainly his daughter got lots of “attention”
Rupert Murdock
You know something’s wrong when you can’t even comment on an attack by a hostile nation without someone using the phrase “evil foreigners” in a sarcastic accusatory tone to make everyone think of racism to try and dismiss the accusation.
Honestly, I wish everyone loved to throw a fit over Putin. Seems like the west is mostly ignoring him, or secretly on his side. Same with western media. But I’m sure it wouldn’t feel that way if you were on Russia’s side.
Also, “Reactionary Media”? Are you implying Russia is some kind of progressive here?
you can’t even comment on an attack by a hostile nation
The hostile nation is the host nation. The calls are coming from inside the house.
I agree with what you’re saying but this is not the thread to complain about our own billionaires influence. It just comes across as tanky.
One notes the glaring absence of Cambridge Analytica from the discussion, and quoting a BBC article, even Wikipedia insists:
In 2020, the British Information Commissioner’s Office closed a three-year inquiry into the company, concluded that Cambridge Analytica was “not involved” in the 2016 Brexit referendum and found no additional evidence for Russia’s alleged interference during the campaign.
But look further, and Brexit is all through the Wikipedia page, including this:
Cambridge Analytica did work for the UK’s LeaveEU Brexit campaign during the 2016 EU Referendum which they denied.
And then:
CA became involved in the 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum (Brexit) supporting “persuadable” voters to vote for leaving the European Union. Articles by Carole Cadwalladr in The Observer and Guardian newspapers, respectively published in February and May 2017, speculated in detail that CA had influenced both the Brexit/Vote Leave option in the UK’s 2016 EU membership referendum and Trump’s 2016 US presidential campaign, with Robert Mercer’s backing of Donald Trump being key. They also discuss the legality of using the social data farmed.
In 2016 the Russians and the world oligarchs were throwing EVERYTHING they had at Brexit. No “try” about it. They DID interfere.
What’s the difference between trying and doing?
It’s less embarrasing to admit they were trying.
“Doing” implies at least some level of success, while “trying” doesn’t.
Or perhaps confirmed success. And “trying” means “we saw signs of it, but haven’t confirmed its impact or if our mitigations worked” (or “don’t want to confirm”)
Russia tried, Cambridge Analitica did
Potato potato.
This is much funnier to read than to hear
Russia always be up in someone’s business
The big three, Russia, USA, and China are all the way up everyone’s ass at the moment.
Uncle Vladiping Poopin
I don’t understand why everyone buys the whole West vs East thing. They’re clearly on the same side.
It is indeed an unspoken alliance right now. I am getting the feeling that the wealthy are beyond nations at this point and it is just a game to fuck with everyone else.
Something tells me it’s actually just a “did”, considering the thing happened and now it’s getting brought up.
The whole thing was their idea.
