Mainstream politicians express alarm while lead candidate in Saxony-Anhalt welcomes congratulations from Elon Musk
Mainstream politicians around Europe have expressed alarm after the far-right Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) swept to a historic state election victory in Germany, while nationalist figures cheered the result as a mandate for change.
While falling just short of an absolute majority, the AfD surged into first place in the Saxony-Anhalt state election on Sunday, exit polls showed, putting the far right within reach of power at the state level for the first time since the second world war.
The history of humanity is slow walking into disaster, consistently and unceasingly.
musk and putin helping with the messaging that is.
Alright European lemmings… You’ve been lecturing us American lemmings for several years about what you’d do if fascism started creeping into power in your country. Now’s your chance, show us how it’s really done.
Ok, watch and learn. By the time it’s done it may be too late for you tho.
I have no doubt they will, actually.
I have serious doubt, but I’d prefer to be shown up as a monumentally incorrect fool. Defeating fascism is a lot more important than petty schadenfreude.
We won’t, unless Germany somehow gets invaded by France. Only they know how to revolt, and we can’t/won’t communicate with them…
The same France in which the far right candidate leads the polls for 2027’s presidential elections?
No, that one can go fuck itself
People don’t like immigration, and the only parties that promise to do anything against it are the extreme right wing ones. That’s how they get their votes.
Until other parties wake up and realise that they should tackle the immigration problem, the fascist will always have that trick to get votes.
Please describe to me how immigration is a problem that needs to be dealt with rather than allowing for visa free movement between borders. And how immigration is anything but a means to control the average person and prevent them from seeking a better life elsewhere?
Sure, I’ll try!
There is nothing inherently wrong about borders. You’re probably very happy your house has a border. Wolf packs have borders. Borders are useful.
As I see it, borders are physical manifestations of a social construct. You know, like money, flags, medals, wedding gowns, etc etc. And just like all of these, borders have a social purpose for the tribe within. In their case it’s to distinguish between “us” and “them”. Why make that distinction? Because tribes must pool their resources to thrive. That includes material things like food and shelter, but also immaterial resources like labor, safety, clean water, you name it.
But sharing has two hard requirements: reciprocity and trust. Without either, you cannot pool your resources without risk of getting taken advantage of. Why invest in a common good that might not be there for you when YOU need it? That’s why reciprocity and trust are so fundamental to human relations! We built an entire society about signals of trust, about showing other people you are “us” and not “them”.
Long story short, tribes (“us”) guard their pooled resources from outsiders (“them”). That’s why Germans can’t collect their pension from Mongolian state funds. Nationalities, then, are a shorthand for calculating whether a person has contributed to a tribe’s resources and is therefore an “us”.
There’s a ton of valid(!) arguments to be made about which kinds of borders are fair, or which immigrants deserve our pooled resources. But that’s not my point here, I’m here to argue that visa are useful and serve a purpose (which is not bullying outsiders, but protecting INsiders)
But the CDU is also promising to tackle immigration, and has actually delivered on some of it during their government. They were halved this election.
The fascist can always jump to the next topic. Immigration isn’t even the original boogeyman, there’s always another “other”. You can’t beat them at their own game, they’ll always promise a more radical, more “effective” solution, meaning you’ll never “do enough”. The only thing you’ll do is legitimize their viewpoint.
You need to address why people are looking for a boogeyman. And that’s because many of them appear to be worse off than they were a decade ago. They’re angry at traditional parties because they messed up economically and standard of living is going down. Address that, and you take away the oxygen that fuels the fire. Immigration didn’t cause the standard of living to go down, promising you’ll end it legitimizes those who claim it does.
In Germany we can see that the people who don’t like immigrants are the ones that almost have no immigration.
So you see there is sth. that doesn’t make sense.
Also the far right blame alien people for the problems and claim dealing with immigrants solves that. However we know what the actual issue is. Rich companies and rich people.
But the common people only see shit is bad, probably immigrants. Because BILD newspaper said so.
We do not have an “immigration problem”, and copying the far-right does nothing, as shown in multiple studies: https://cloud.karakeep.app/public/lists/gf3gklfyh1tw7ngqb0n2aonj
Saschen-Anhalt has barely any immigrants and a population older than Jesus. The few immigrants there are, are trying to keep the old fucks alive. What are other parties supposed to do about that?
the fact one side was pushing for the criminalization of the other probably didn’t help
I wonder how much this has to do with musk owning twitter, larry ellison owning tiktok, and zuckerberg owning rest
Even the ultra-fascist space marine is shocked?
Funny, Channel 5 just re-released a video about the far right in Germany, which mentioned the exact province of Saxony Anhalt, and how there was an outcry against immigrants there even though the population of immigrants in that part of Germany is extremely low
It’s always the people with 0 immigrants living near them bitching about immigrants.
100% always the case with the people who have the least amount of contact with a specific minority. It’s very easy to manipulate people into hating someone they personally don’t know.
Who wants to solve this issue?
Who’s willing to become the “actually leftist” politician in an age, where they’re being both hunted down by neo-nazis, tankies, and being likened to the very liberals (and sometimes conservatives), who got this mess onto our heads?
Strangely quiet from all those who are pissing on the US “YOU GUYS DO SOMETHING”, yeah?
Well, here’s your chance, for the ones of those who are like the above but who are in Germany: DO SOMETHING NOW WHILE YOU STILL CAN. OR at least shut the fuck up about the US and our struggles to overcome fascism.
(I’m venting about those specific assholes, not Germans struggling to fight against this rightwing surge, I hope that’s clear)
Aye, I’ve fought those assholes on Lemmy. They are a poison to us all.
We’re in this together, all of us. Every citizen in this world. The fascists must be defeated.
This is a global class war.
Unfortunately the owner class is faster in organizing globally than the workers… but we’ll ctach up eventually.
The bigger they get, the harder they will be to remove until it’s too late. All the deadlock over the last few years about whether they should or shouldn’t ban them has allowed them to balloon to this size. The best time for action was yesterday, the second best is today. Don’t let the Nazis take over again.
You can ban the group, but you can’t ban the ideas or support that led to it.
The other parties need to take an honest look at themselves and ask why people would support a party like that over themselves.
So it goes…
It’s a long line of ‘you should just protest/vote harder’ countries, unfortunately
Well, i’m out at every opportunity to join any protest against the far-right in my region, even if i have to drive half an hour to get to it or take a day off from work. Last time i marched with a wild mix of people through half the town, blocking most of a major entry road to the inner city, in protest against the AfD having their meet and greet. I’m also member of a union.
And i’m still gonna criticise 'Muricans for not doing enough. At this point protesting alone might not be enough. I’m not saying you should turn to violence, but you absolutely should unionise more and coordinate massive shutdowns all over the country. People managed to do that in the past, and at that time they didn’t even have the convenience of instant communication across the globe. Those worker’s rights didn’t come for free.
even if i have to drive half an hour to get to it or take a day off from work.
No offense, but this sentence alone shows just how disconnected you are from the struggles of Americans
As i said, those rights didn’t come for free. There was a time when they didn’t exist here or anywhere in Europe. Sometimes they were gained by strikes and peaceful protests, sometimes it took a more drastic turn.
I appreciate your optimism, truly. But I wish you could try talking some sense into the average American on this topic. You would see quickly that we’re a long, long ways from the days of the west coast waterfront strike and things like that. Most have been brainwashed to believe that unions are a bad thing.
Yea…like Americans help…
HALF AN HOUR! I’m laughing I’m sorry. Half an hour! Holy fuck half an hour is like a trip to the grocery store in America.
Removed by mod
Oh look, a Nazi
Fuck off with protests. Holy fuck. They don’t do jack shit except give the opportunity for the organizers to fill their CV and collect them like those marathon running stickers on the back of a Volvo.
Fuck
This entire time the strategy was and only ever was to protest online. You protest by building networks and creating memes and identifying when people are paying millions to convince people on the left to go commit to the most high energy low retard efforts like it described where all of us have to drive 3 hrs just to get arrested and beat up.
The internet has literally been here the whole time. Turns the fuck out that the goal is protesting is actually what is done online every single fucking day. Go figure. Meanwhile we all left social media and chose the smallest corner of the internet to exist in crying about how bad everything is. Fucking hate it here. The left fucking suck.
Fuck off with protests. Holy fuck. They don’t do jack shit
And that’s the reason why i think that American propaganda not only effects the Maga cult. Because that’s exactly what they want you to think. They don’t want you to realise that you’re not alone. Going out to the streets can be an effective peaceful way to make your voice heard up until the point where more drastic actions are inevitable. In 2024 it lead to a significant drop in the polls for the AfD when massive protests erupted all over Germany due to their “remigration” plans. These protests should have kept going on, but sadly they didn’t. And sadly, certain media outlets kept pushing more propaganda in the time after.
One major reason for protests is to show the fellow countrymen and women what is acceptable in the society and what not. If you don’t react, you give them basically a free pass on being massive assholes. Turns out that Nazis don’t like it if they’re outed as Nazis. They tend to go back into their dark little shithole corners and cry about it.
The internet has literally been here the whole time. Turns the fuck out that the goal is protesting is actually what is done online every single fucking day. Go figure. Meanwhile we all left social media and chose the smallest corner of the internet to exist in crying about how bad everything is. Fucking hate it here. The left fucking suck.
Protesting online isn’t enough. Not by far. Especially if that place is absolutely filled to the brim with propagandists and bots. And politicians certainly don’t give a flying fuck about a bunch of basement dwellers crying on social media. They do care, if those people are out on the streets. That’s where people are the most inconvenient, because if people are on the streets, they have to spend time and money for organisation and police work. It binds resources. It blocks entry ways. If done right, it can shut down entire cities. And if those town’s leaders are smart, they join in on the protest, because that makes them being seen. That’s how my home town turned into a SPD stronghold in a state full of CSU voters.
Action starts at the lowest level in the immediate area. Not some fucking website filled with Russian, Chinese and Israeli bots.
It hasn’t worked in half a century. Protest had a greater effect before the global village. But now we have a better understanding of numbers making a show of force almost useless. We have shown up 700,000,000 for causes with practically no effect. It is a new world and it’s time to let go. We need to adapt yet there is an old guard holding us all back. It’s about spreading a message, it’s about beliefs and ideas and network and power. None of that can be achieved with protests. I would bet good money that behind many of these modern protests is actually the opposition. It is such a waste of time and effort and there is no argument in recent times that can show other wise.
You’re whole argument is detailing the internet when you actually read between the lines.
We should be choosing lower effort and maximizing for effect. Protests are high effort low effect. Online culture jamming is low effort, high effect. It is logic to anyone who thinks about this honestly
Half a century? Guess the Arab spring and the Euromaidan don’t count (just examples off the top of my head)
The commenter you replied to, basically described basic human-ing for you, and why it works and has always worked, in the past.
Your rebuttal is focused on…the Internet as an object of stagnant sociocultural jamming, is that right? I think that was the gist.
I won’t engage that directly at the moment, as it could just as easily be insight with poor communication skills behind it, as it could be a strange conspiracy theory, as it could be propaganda meant to deflate and discourage.
All equally plausible places to come from, because you keep repeating the same bits and not going deeper.
We should be choosing lower effort and maximizing for effect. Protests are high effort low effect. Online culture jamming is low effort, high effect. It is logic to anyone who thinks about this honestly
What is a low effort-high effect action you believe we should be taking?
On the same token, if your tactics to achieve a strategy which you’ve yet to share are sound…what are high effort and low effect actions we can force the opposition into making?
In the original comment they described having to drive hours to get to a protest. Does that sound like high effort to you.
Low effort is being able to sit at a desk compared to driving 3 hrs.
High effort is trying to rally millions into the street to face off against authority that has already solved protesting
It’s true that protesting by absenting yourself from the corrupt mainstream kinds turns what could be a fuck-you counterculture moment into a fuck-you-im-leaving subculture…
It’s just so gross out there lol. If anyone can stomach it while also not being co-opted though that’s cool and I support it.
I do think protests have their place though, but it’s like a cookout at the park type thing almost. You meet irl, you network, you vibe check; then you go on to do your other actions.
If some people just want to show up to vibe out and maybe put some radical slaps up that’s cool too. Probably good to have more normal types in attendance to be a shield for more radical elements.
It’s a state election, in a relatively small state, it’s bad, but it’s not the end of democracy in Germany just yet. There are two more state elections in two weeks, AfD is predicted to be strongest in one of those states (MV) too, but not nearly as bad, as there is still a possibility for a stable government there. I’m not too worried about the other election in Berlin.
MAGA started as a small section of the republican party known as the tea party. They were thought of as an annoying but small group that was likely to fade on its own. People here thought the small wins weren’t important either and here we are. Once that shit catches on it spreads like a wildfire.
Eh, we’ve kinda seen the opposite in the Netherlands. Far-right party got in right-wing coalition, things obviously failed to work out for them as they were completely dysfunctional, and they were punished in the next election. In countries without FPTP it’s much harder for these kinds of parties to get in control.
Yeah the last years I always thought it is just a matter of time until far right gets majorities in Germany/all over Europe as well.
Greetings from germany
Welcome to the Assholocene.
Thank the corrupt and elitist fucks of CxU and SPD for a couple of decades of cutting access to education and ignoring the problems of those under their rule. And fuck you, Frotze, in particular!
Probably the same patterns the book Democracy in Chains discusses. The same history since the first hoarding and the power/wealth inequalities that came with it. The wealth pays for the armies and to protect the wealthy. Those with the money and power win and write the rules and history. The systems say, “believe us we know what’s right”. The problems are caused by the wealth inequality, but blamed on minorities and changing too fast can’t deal with it, and only they have the solution, so dig in deeper and accept these new rules on free speech and protests against the ruler. Usa has the nazi ice abduct, abuse and put people in concentration camps that make the wealthy owners even richer, just like happened in olden days, already forgot, or some want to repeat it.
Owners get richer,
The more people they put in,
Concentration camps
Now watch as “liberals” continue to do nothing to stop the fascist propaganda machines causing the spread of the mental illness, because they are bankrolled by the fascists in the corporate economic elite.
They’ll also continue sowing the seeds of fascism by colluding with the elite to extract wealth from the population. Buckle up. All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.
The Weimar Republic did the same god damn thing.
As usual, the conservatives are given a pass and then liberals assigned all the blame.
This place is absolute fucking joke.
No they aren’t. The liberals and conservatives are both being blamed because they are both part of the problem. 2 sides of the same coin.
Liberals are being assigned blame because they are worthy of blame.
Conservatives know they are to blame, telling them that does nothing. Liberals think they are helping the working class and at the very least are discomforted when confronted with the reality of their actions (sometimes).
We don’t have liberals or a two party system or whatever you have in the US.
This dumb Propaganda shit on lemmy that the left is to blame for the fascism that people voted for really bores me by now.
None of this is the lefts fault.
But you also don’t have any left at all, which doesn’t help.
Even fucking bsw has a point when calling die linke just another socdem party. And neither of these party is even doing well in the urns.
From a French PoV, German politics are really cooked. Overton window is more right wing than us, and the votes are also more concentrated to the right.
BSW should figure out who they even are before they sling any shit. They are putins Nazicommunist party and you need to mentally unwell to vote for them.
I don’t have a problem with the socialists going socdem because there is presumably a large gap there.
The Socdems by name sold out more than 25 years ago.
I’m not American and you do have liberals, and liberals aren’t the left.
In the US, the neoliberals have held power over the Democrat party since Ronald Reagan was president in the 1980s. Liberal is shorthand for neoliberal and are considered left here. They are very much to blame for the current state of the US. They offshored jobs, busted unions, weakened education, and cut welfare programs to benefit the elites just like the conservatives have.
Surely liberal isn’t short for neoliberal.
It is in american parlance. When you hear right-wingers rally against “liberals” they are talking about neoliberals. If they meant classical liberals they’d be talking about themselves.
Unless you live in North Korea you’ve got liberals. It’s good to learn some basic definitions for words before running your mouth. If you live in Germany, the CDU, SDP, FDP and Greens are all liberal parties.
Nobody is giving conservatives a pass. But we aren’t going to solve the problem if we don’t spend time understanding why people are voting the way they’re voting in an international trend, and it isn’t that everyone just became a lot more racist overnight; it’s because in many countries, the reality has become choosing between a more social liberal or social conservative neoliberal party, and one would need to be blind at this point to not see it’s the second part of that descriptor people are done with.
I’m saying this as someone who is absolutely a lesser of the evils voter and advocated for such; but I also understand what’s actually driving support for people like Trump, AfD, and the like, and it isn’t a surge in intolerance; it’s material conditions, like it almost always is.
The criticism gets directed at the center left more than the center right because they are the ones more politically viable to change, or at least that’s been the view. Conservatives concentrating wealth and power in the hands of a few is itself a conservative position in the traditional sense. Any party claiming to be left should be antithetical towards that.
Don’t mistake that for giving conservatives a pass. They’re worse, I’ll absolutely vote center left neoliberal if they are the only alternative; but convincing them is to fundamentally change their views more than a center left party.
There may be a gap here in the definition of “liberal”. Liberalism is a political philosophy that also encompasses most traditional conservatives. It is different from the colloquial usage. It’s loosely defined as the belief in individual freedoms, including the right to private property. It is inherently capitalist and therefore socialists, communists and anarchists generally do not consider them to be of the left.
If you split yourself off the “left in the widest sense” you have 5 percent of the votes and you are essentially meaningless. Stuck to your values but meaningless.
The left does not need more splitting while the right manages to rally behind one or two people.
Unless your election system is FPTP, I don’t see a problem with doing just 5%.
As I say, liberals believe in capitalism by definition. The impact of your vote once every few years in an election under this system pales in comparison to the influence that the owner class have due to their wealth and power. This is fundamental. This is why you get all the anti-liberal sentiment from anti-capitalists.
Furthermore you talk about convincing some percentage of voters in order to change the system. The early turnout figure for this election is 54% and that’s considered high… What of the non voters?
Sometimes I think it must be a psyops by the billionaires to divide and demoralize the left. Then I remember some people are just so dumb.
you seriously think liberals are part of left? lol.
QED
Liberals are not leftist
QED
When the home team who is on defense just allows goal after goal with no defense, and scoring no goals of their own… that’s a bad team and deserves criticism if they’re the bulwark defenders who are supposed to oppose fascism. Fascists are winning and that is the fault of liberals for a lack of opposition.
Who are the liberals if not the conservatives?
It’s their go to.
Like yeah, milquetoast policies ultimately lead us here but they have more fury for the people doing moderately OK but ultimately unsatisfactory things than the people actually going hog wild, robbing everyone blind, instituting fascism, etc.
The person breaking the lock and leaving deserves about as much blame as the burglar.
because liberals are the prime reason of fascists rise in power. They pretend to be good while oiling the fascist machine
Liberals are fascist collaborators and work on behalf of the elites. The sooner liberals are gone the faster we can fix these issues. Conservatives are just plain evil.
Good luck getting more than 5 percent of the votes. 👍 We’ll talk then
You must not be from the US then. It’s already happening here. Many progressive candidates are either beating the liberals or nearly beating them. I expect that to keep happening too. I was a lifelong liberal voter and even voted for Kamala in '24, but I won’t make that mistake again. Liberals do not have the best interests of the working class in mind and they’ve made that crystal clear. Hell, they don’t even have the best interests of human life in mind.
But either the Democrats need to be taken over completely, MAGA style or lose so much that another party takes their spot in the two party system. Which is difficult.
These monolithic blocks exist because they are not constantly under attack in that system.
As liberals and conservatives make life worse for the working class they’ll start to realize both of those options are bad. Unfortunately many will have to suffer before they come to that conclusion.
That’s the point, that a lot would have to happen
Ppl vote them because other (big) parties dont address their problems. Also % thresholds for democratic participation keeps smaller parties with reasonable programmes away from the table. Wasnt too long ago EU intruduced this. So this is the consequence of continous political failure. I’d also argue voters are aware they get robbed by politicians accepting bribes direct or indirect. And they vote any party (falsely here, see tesla feat) promising to crack down on the old political class. Trump did the same (but didnt follow through obv).
People are desperate.
Mainstream politicians don’t get it, despite seeing it play out in multiple countries with varied culture: people are so done with neoliberlism they will vote for literal fascists before they vote for another neoliberal.
No the regions in the east have gotten too much funding for infrastructure and such. The money that was worth exactly zero got exchanged 1:1 to DM.
This cost billions. Streets in the east look fantastic. Where I grew up in the west everything is broken.
This is the thanks the west gets from these fuckin people.
Fuck them, fuck their “problems”
I’m not German but I’ve always heard the exact opposite…
“History repeats itself first as farce, then as tragedy”
Let’s hope we’re just on the “farce” part lol
Other way around: the tragedy is first.
May I ask why you hope for even worse?
Now watch as “liberals” continue to do nothing
This comment is so ignorant about the reality it hurts.
There are many actual legal actions taken against AfD and AfD members already, including a period of time where AfD was not allowed to receive briefings regarding national security, something that is a right for all members of the Bundestag.Personally I’m sad they didn’t get a majority, because that’s probably the best cure, people need to see how damaging their policies are, and how stupid they really are. AfD is a protest party, people vote for because they are unhappy with the current situation. Caused by Covid, Ukraine War, Russian energy sanctions against EU before the Ukraine war that was very damaging to German industries, and now Eu sanctions against Russia that have similar effect. Followed by the damage on energy supplies like wood pellets from the Ukraine war, and on top of all that Trumps ridiculous tariffs and the effects of the Iran war.
This is at the same time we have increased competition from China.Europe has been in a perfect storm for nearly a decade now caused by outside forces. Except of course Brexit can be argued to not be outside when that happened. And although Brexit was far worse for UK, it was also damaging to EU.
AfD is by far the strongest in the old Communist Eastern Germany, because despite massive support from the old Western Germany they feel cheated, and some accuse the politicians of privatizing only to the advantage of West Germany. They simply refuse to realize how far behind they were economically at the time.
On top of all the above Putin has made a massive effort of misinformation in Germany, to promote the extreme right, and dissatisfaction. Despite we are actually doing pretty well in EU considering the circumstances this past decade.
Personally I’m sad they didn’t get a majority, because that’s probably the best cure, people need to see how damaging their policies are, and how stupid they really are.
Be careful what you wish for. That’s the attitude America had that earned us another run of the Orange pedo.
It was also the attitude of Weimar Germany towards the Nazi party.
That’s the attitude America had
No it’s not, Trump was a proven malignant narcissist. AfD is not a person, but a political party, as soon as such people have to agree on things to make real policies, they tend to crumble.
The US situation is very very different, and is based in a society that has become more sociopathic over many decades. The role has as President of USA has no equal in Germany, nobody is granted that much power in Germany. Trump with his extreme narcissism would be very unlikely to be able to function in German politics.
There are many actual legal actions taken against AfD and AfD members already, including a period of time where AfD was not allowed to receive briefings regarding national security, something that is a right for all members of the Bundestag.
But nothing to actually solve ordinary people’s problems and show that there’s a way other than fascism. In the absence of that, defensive democracy is nothing more than theater.
people vote for because they are unhappy with the current situation. Caused by Covid, Ukraine War, Russian energy sanctions against EU before the Ukraine war that was very damaging to German industries, and now Eu sanctions against Russia that have similar effect. Followed by the damage on energy supplies like wood pellets from the Ukraine war, and on top of all that Trumps ridiculous tariffs and the effects of the Iran war. This is at the same time we have increased competition from China.
Yeah, it’s all those evil foreigners. It can’t be the awful mismanagement of the political establishment. Housing crisis? No way.
PS: The impact of Ukraine on energy prices is a direct consequence of EU countries slow-walking decarbonization.
Legal actions are the anti-solution. Making people feel that they don’t need the afd because other parties are meeting their needs is the real solution.
It’s the “christians” or the Zentrum Party back then. We don’t have “liberals”.
The center right betrayed the German people back then and right now. Learn the history before writing BS.
No, not as much as the role of the national liberal DNVP (which Hindenburg was effectively a part of, too) and partially the Social Democrats collaborating with the Nazis to kill the communist party. It was the liberals.
A little black for the pots that call the kettles in the US black. See guys, were all infested with fascists on the inside.
