British police faced backlash on Tuesday over the case of an 18-year-old student who was handcuffed as he lay dying from stab wounds after his killer falsely alleged a racist attack.
Digwa stabbed Nowak with a knife he said he was permitted to carry due to exemptions for Sikhs to have ceremonial daggers.
I don’t understand this, isn’t anyone “permitted” to carry a knife wherever they want to in public? Why do they call it an exemption
Edit: Since I’m guessing the answer is “not in the UK” my follow up question would be how do people buy knives there?
Do they have to dodge the cops on their way home from the store?
Thing 1: The UK law is that citizens should not carry a knife exceeding 3" in length in public unless they have good reason to. In reality, what this means is that unless you are a scumbag, there is not a problem. Going hunting? On the tools? Work as a chef? Not an issue. Being a sketchy gang member who intends to do harm to others? - now the public services have something to charge you with to prevent said behaviour. While there are exemptions to the rule for religious/cultural groups (Scots included), the reality is that it’s a non issue unless you plan on breaking the law.
Thing 2: The UK police have been chronically underfunded for decades as the wealth of the country has been gradually privatised and offshored by the very same groups who fund political parties like The Conservatives and Reform (who are currently stoking tension with this story) and whose donors, coincidentally, own much of the media. Police now receive very little training and not much pay. The organisation is very under-resourced.
Thing 3: The police officers attended the scene having been told by the perpetrators that they had been attacked and racially abused by a drunk man who then tried to climb over a fence and fell on his head. They entered the scene primed to find a drunk/drugged and violent muppet who had fallen on his own head having attacked a family on a domestic street. The police officers were incompetent, poorly trained, not that bright. What happened was tragic. They failed to perceive the truth… but to say the are somehow racist is a stretch. They were deceived by an unhinged man, who has been locked up already.
Lastly, thing 4: The Sikh idiot didn’t use the standard ceremonial (and often blunt) blade that Sikhs normally carry. He used a larger and very sharp one. I believe his family members (who assisted in the deception; his mother even hid the knife) are being charged with weapons offences today.
Not sure about this exact locality, but there totally are places and areas where you are not permitted to carry knifes. The USA is really an exemption that people are allowed to carry assault rifles, grenade launchers and flamethrowers in the subway. Other countries have knife bans in place so that you are not allowed knifes in public transport or in other places
It’s worth it to note that the majority of US states have similar laws regarding the carrying of blades over a certain length in public, and almost all public transit systems in the United States heavily restrict or outright forbid weapons on public transit.
The USA is really an exemption that people are allowed to carry assault rifles, grenade launchers and flamethrowers in the subway
Not only is this hyperbole categorically false on its face, but it’s often even illegal to bring blunt self defense weapons onto the Subway like brass knuckles, clubs etc.
Laws are different everywhere, but often blades over 3" are prohibited. In NYC, there is an old law against “gravity” knives, which open with a flick of the hand, which is possible for most folding knives, if you practice. So NYC cops like to watch for people who have a knife clipped to their pocket, and arrest them for having a gravity knife, when it’s just a normal folder. The president of the stage hand’s union, whose members are required to have a knife on them at work, spend a considerable time each month writing letters to the court, requesting his union members have their cases dismissed since they are required to carry a knife.
I live in central europe but still would never think twice about leaving the house or entering a tram with a knife in my backpack. I think I actually do still have a swiss army knife in there somewhere that I’ve been carrying literally anywhere I go for the last couple years.
To me it’s a little strange to compare knives, which are primarily tools, to firearms that are from start to finish designed for the sole purpose of killing and injuring living things. My life would be worse without knives, I use them every single day. But I’ve never required a gun for anything
In a backpack, yeah, I wouldn’t worry as someone from Northern Europe.
On my belt though? Again, I wouldn’t worry… if I’m not on public transport and instead hiking in the woods or on my way there with boots and whatnot.
Wearing Friday bests in public transport with a large knife on my belt? Yeah I expect it wouldn’t be too long for someone to contact the authorities. Especially if you were just hanging out in public, displaying it.
And by knife I mean something like this
No-one would be bothered about a Swiss Army tool in your pocket, though.
Uk law is you can carry up to a 3.5" folding knife as a general EDC.
Obviously exemptions if your job requires it but they need to be stored correctly so chefs put them in canvas rolls, trades tool boxes etc
Can’t tell you how it is in the UK, but here in Germany, you’re only allowed to carry knives with short blades (<= 12 cm, IIRC) in public, anything larger than that has to be stowed away safely, so that it cant be reached easily. A locked container would be ideal, but the precise definition is a bit wishy washy, and there are also designated areas, where even the small ones are not allowed (or fall under the same restrictions. I’m not really sure).
Furthermore, there are knives, which are just generally outlawed depending on their construction; like spring-loaded knives and butterfly knives, for example.
If there are at least similar regulations in the UK, the Sikh’s ceremonial daggers, could fall into a category that would usually be banned, but with an exemption for religious reasons.
Some of the rules here are a bit silly, imho, but the fact, that we don’t treat a small paring knife the same as an army combat knife at least makes sense to me.
Swiss army knives are also permitted in most places thanks to their lack of locking mechanism, iirc there’s a specific law in place about locking knives of any length, but I’m not going to trawl through pages of constabularyspeak to find out.
You probably haven’t, but the reasons why are actually still a bit more complicated.
Having a typical Swiss army knife on you usually isn’t a problem. But the afore mentioned designated areas are often found around train stations, especially in larger cities, and a few years ago the law designated vehicles and areas of public transport as such areas per se.
That’s one scenario, where you might end up getting in trouble completely unaware.
Again, there are exemptions, that should enable you to take your Swiss army knife on the train and travel with it, without getting in trouble. But the phrasing is pretty wishy washy still. One exemption, for example, allows carrying knives for “generally accepted purposes”, whatever that is.
In theory, you should be perfectly fine travelling with a small pocket knife, but no guarantee, that the individual law enforcement officer would accept your purpose of transport and travelling. So you better make sure, you look white and at least middle class enough…
And god forbid, you actually end up in a situation, where you’d have to use said knife in self-defense and hurt someone. You might end up having to defend your purpose of carrying a knife in the first place in court.
Because Sikhs have to carry the knife as part of their religion. The religion, however, forbids the offensive use of the knife. It is only for self-defense.
Yeah but I’m pretty sure I can also just put a knife in my pocket and leave my house without doing anything illegal in the process, so I’m wondering why there needs to be an exemption.
Edit: Also pretty sure everyone is forbidden from using knives offensively not just Sikhs
Many British laws consist of a blanket ban with exemptions rather than the American assumption of legality unless specifically banned. So knives that are legal to carry/legal reasons for carrying a knife are all exemptions rather than an assumed norm.
I don’t understand this, isn’t anyone “permitted” to carry a knife wherever they want to in public? Why do they call it an exemption
Edit: Since I’m guessing the answer is “not in the UK” my follow up question would be how do people buy knives there? Do they have to dodge the cops on their way home from the store?
So there are some things to consider here.
Thing 1: The UK law is that citizens should not carry a knife exceeding 3" in length in public unless they have good reason to. In reality, what this means is that unless you are a scumbag, there is not a problem. Going hunting? On the tools? Work as a chef? Not an issue. Being a sketchy gang member who intends to do harm to others? - now the public services have something to charge you with to prevent said behaviour. While there are exemptions to the rule for religious/cultural groups (Scots included), the reality is that it’s a non issue unless you plan on breaking the law.
Thing 2: The UK police have been chronically underfunded for decades as the wealth of the country has been gradually privatised and offshored by the very same groups who fund political parties like The Conservatives and Reform (who are currently stoking tension with this story) and whose donors, coincidentally, own much of the media. Police now receive very little training and not much pay. The organisation is very under-resourced.
Thing 3: The police officers attended the scene having been told by the perpetrators that they had been attacked and racially abused by a drunk man who then tried to climb over a fence and fell on his head. They entered the scene primed to find a drunk/drugged and violent muppet who had fallen on his own head having attacked a family on a domestic street. The police officers were incompetent, poorly trained, not that bright. What happened was tragic. They failed to perceive the truth… but to say the are somehow racist is a stretch. They were deceived by an unhinged man, who has been locked up already.
Lastly, thing 4: The Sikh idiot didn’t use the standard ceremonial (and often blunt) blade that Sikhs normally carry. He used a larger and very sharp one. I believe his family members (who assisted in the deception; his mother even hid the knife) are being charged with weapons offences today.
All very sad.
Not sure about this exact locality, but there totally are places and areas where you are not permitted to carry knifes. The USA is really an exemption that people are allowed to carry assault rifles, grenade launchers and flamethrowers in the subway. Other countries have knife bans in place so that you are not allowed knifes in public transport or in other places
It’s worth it to note that the majority of US states have similar laws regarding the carrying of blades over a certain length in public, and almost all public transit systems in the United States heavily restrict or outright forbid weapons on public transit.
Not only is this hyperbole categorically false on its face, but it’s often even illegal to bring blunt self defense weapons onto the Subway like brass knuckles, clubs etc.
Laws are different everywhere, but often blades over 3" are prohibited. In NYC, there is an old law against “gravity” knives, which open with a flick of the hand, which is possible for most folding knives, if you practice. So NYC cops like to watch for people who have a knife clipped to their pocket, and arrest them for having a gravity knife, when it’s just a normal folder. The president of the stage hand’s union, whose members are required to have a knife on them at work, spend a considerable time each month writing letters to the court, requesting his union members have their cases dismissed since they are required to carry a knife.
I live in central europe but still would never think twice about leaving the house or entering a tram with a knife in my backpack. I think I actually do still have a swiss army knife in there somewhere that I’ve been carrying literally anywhere I go for the last couple years.
To me it’s a little strange to compare knives, which are primarily tools, to firearms that are from start to finish designed for the sole purpose of killing and injuring living things. My life would be worse without knives, I use them every single day. But I’ve never required a gun for anything
In a backpack, yeah, I wouldn’t worry as someone from Northern Europe.
On my belt though? Again, I wouldn’t worry… if I’m not on public transport and instead hiking in the woods or on my way there with boots and whatnot.
Wearing Friday bests in public transport with a large knife on my belt? Yeah I expect it wouldn’t be too long for someone to contact the authorities. Especially if you were just hanging out in public, displaying it.
And by knife I mean something like this
No-one would be bothered about a Swiss Army tool in your pocket, though.
Uk law is you can carry up to a 3.5" folding knife as a general EDC. Obviously exemptions if your job requires it but they need to be stored correctly so chefs put them in canvas rolls, trades tool boxes etc
Can’t tell you how it is in the UK, but here in Germany, you’re only allowed to carry knives with short blades (<= 12 cm, IIRC) in public, anything larger than that has to be stowed away safely, so that it cant be reached easily. A locked container would be ideal, but the precise definition is a bit wishy washy, and there are also designated areas, where even the small ones are not allowed (or fall under the same restrictions. I’m not really sure).
Furthermore, there are knives, which are just generally outlawed depending on their construction; like spring-loaded knives and butterfly knives, for example.
If there are at least similar regulations in the UK, the Sikh’s ceremonial daggers, could fall into a category that would usually be banned, but with an exemption for religious reasons.
Some of the rules here are a bit silly, imho, but the fact, that we don’t treat a small paring knife the same as an army combat knife at least makes sense to me.
That makes sense. Good to know I probably haven’t been doing anything illegal by carrying a swiss army knife in the S Bahn
Swiss army knives are also permitted in most places thanks to their lack of locking mechanism, iirc there’s a specific law in place about locking knives of any length, but I’m not going to trawl through pages of constabularyspeak to find out.
You probably haven’t, but the reasons why are actually still a bit more complicated.
Having a typical Swiss army knife on you usually isn’t a problem. But the afore mentioned designated areas are often found around train stations, especially in larger cities, and a few years ago the law designated vehicles and areas of public transport as such areas per se.
That’s one scenario, where you might end up getting in trouble completely unaware.
Again, there are exemptions, that should enable you to take your Swiss army knife on the train and travel with it, without getting in trouble. But the phrasing is pretty wishy washy still. One exemption, for example, allows carrying knives for “generally accepted purposes”, whatever that is.
In theory, you should be perfectly fine travelling with a small pocket knife, but no guarantee, that the individual law enforcement officer would accept your purpose of transport and travelling. So you better make sure, you look white and at least middle class enough…
And god forbid, you actually end up in a situation, where you’d have to use said knife in self-defense and hurt someone. You might end up having to defend your purpose of carrying a knife in the first place in court.
Because Sikhs have to carry the knife as part of their religion. The religion, however, forbids the offensive use of the knife. It is only for self-defense.
What if it’s part of religion to carry an AR-15 or even a handgun? Having a weapon gives a distinct advantage over others.
Then you can make that case in court, like Sikhs have done.
I hope someone does.
Yeah but I’m pretty sure I can also just put a knife in my pocket and leave my house without doing anything illegal in the process, so I’m wondering why there needs to be an exemption.
Edit: Also pretty sure everyone is forbidden from using knives offensively not just Sikhs
Many British laws consist of a blanket ban with exemptions rather than the American assumption of legality unless specifically banned. So knives that are legal to carry/legal reasons for carrying a knife are all exemptions rather than an assumed norm.