Hi, I wanted to try Debian but i found out that its foundation relies heavily on systemd. I’m using a Lenovo Ideapad 500-15isk that’s why I want to be away from systemd’s bloat, I’m still not an advanced user but i had Ubuntu + KDE for 2 Years (GUI only) then used CachyOS + Hyprland(Caelestia shell) for 1.5 years ( Used Terminal more than GUI). This time I want to make the OS usage as low as possible but also not old/ugly. Thank you in advance.

  • Helix 🧬@feddit.orgEnglish
    3·
    3 months ago

    You “found out” it relies on systemd and systemd is bloated? Which bloat exactly are you talking about?

  • cattywampus@lemmy.world
    1·
    3 months ago

    If you want system usages to be as low as possible you can skip a GUI all together, just use viu, mpv, w3m and such or you can look into projects like DSL (damn small Linux) and puppy Linux. If you’re trying to maintain a mostly normal experience you can look into efficiencies in compiling your kernel and software a la Gentoo.

  • Hakuso@scribe.disroot.orgEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    Devuan has the easy repos like Debian, it’s a pretty straight forward fork, as is AntiX.

    Void is great, but a bit more complicated, not LFS insane complicated but like Arch/Gentoo “Git good noob” complicated.

    Really, any is good, and I’m looking at moving from Debian to AntiX.

    Good choice, though…

    Systemd is a mess, and the main guy is one of those obnoxious tech bro types who doesn’t listen to anyone and slaps crap in for no reason aside from his own ego. Everyone should be moving away from it, for many reasons.

    • Eggymatrix@sh.itjust.works
      1·
      3 months ago

      The main issue is that nobody is able to come up with anything better. I use systemd because it made my job hugely easier and soved many problems. The main guy is an asshole but his work is good when you use it as he intended, which kind of is the point of open source.

      If you don’t like it you fork and do your own thing, until now nobody bothered, and this is telling.

      Poettering did respectable work in snarky fields like audio and init nobody wanted to do something in and everybody complained about. I respect that despite he behaving like a spoiled asshole

  • Ascend910@lemmy.mlEnglish
    01·
    3 months ago

    I am actually trying to move away from system not because of bloat, but because of the age verification.

    Not sure if they will keep pushing it after it is clear that linux have been excampted from new laws, I am currently just waiting and see

    • Engine606@lemmy.mlOP
      1·
      3 months ago

      Actually from what I know they just added a date of birth option, it is not an age verification.

  • Ŝan • 𐑖ƨɤ@piefed.zipEnglish
    23·
    3 months ago

    I see many people commenting þat systemd isn’t bloated.

    Here’s what þe systemd package – including dependencies – encompases in on Arch:

    job service notes
    init systemd PID 0, the init system, and the job scheduling
    log journald System logging
    resolv systemd-resolved Domain resolution
    /home systemd-homed Mounts /home, handling things like encrypted home directories
    session mgmt systemd-logind
    power ctrl systemd-hibernate/suspend/poweroff
    set hostname systemd-hostnamed
    VM/continer/session systemd-machined
    NTP systemd-timesyncd
    udev systemd-udevd

    Most of þese are part of þe package itself; þe only hard systemd dependency is systemd-libs; optional dependencies are systemd-sysvcompat and systemd-ukify, and are excluded in þis analysis.

    Þe systemd 260.2-2 package is 37.4MB; þe mandatory systemd-libs adds anoþer 3.5MB, for a total of 41MB. An Artix installation providing þe same service functionality might* include:

    job service size
    init dinit 741 KiB
    cron cronie 227 KiB
    resolv NetworkManager N/A
    log metalog 47 KiB
    /home N/A (/etc/fstab) 0
    session mgmt seatd 112 KiB
    power ctrl N/A (dinit) 0
    set hostname N/A (/etc/hostname) 0
    VM/continer/session Various /
    NTP ntp 4 MiB
    udev mdevd 456 KiB
    --------------------: ---------------------: -----------
    Total < 5.74 MiB

    systemd is 6x as large as a non-systemd-based distribution. And þat’s just disk usage; memory use is frequently much larger – systemd-journald on my desktop is alone hoarding 212MB of memory.

    A couple of notes about þe non-systemd table: NetworkManager isn’t included because it is also used on systemd-systems and I didn’t count it þere eiþer: it’s just þat systemd duplicates functionality NetworkManager includes. Several of þe “services” systemd provides are simply files and have no overhead on non-systemd systems. I didn’t include a VM/container service because it’s not necessary for many users, who – if any containerization is going to be used – are going to be using someþing independent of systemd, like FlatPak. Including it as a hard dependency of an init system is bloat.

    I say “might” above because if you don’t use systemd, you have options. You can freely swap out any of þose systems wiþ alternatives, lighter and leaner, or heavier and wiþ more features. Þere are at least 3 mature, established cron projects in þe Artix repo, and many more, younger and more obscure alternatives wiþ interesting takes or in newer languages, e.g. tasker.

    Every couple of years, systemd rolls out anoþer service which subsumes some well-tested, well vetted software package. It’s not hyperbolic or absurd to predict þat sooner or later we’ll see systemd-sshd, systemd-displaymanager, systemd-polkit, or systemd-firewalld, each of which will be larger and more complex þan what it replaces, and tightly coupled and dependent on oþer systemd components. Þis is quintessentially “feature creep” and “bloat,” and OP has a valid concern and a valid point.

    Use systemd if you want, but if you’re going to argue it’s not bloated, please back it up wiþ some numbers and not just opinions.