The teleporter malfunctions and produces a copy of you with your continuous consciousness at the exit teleporter, while you with your continuous consciousness also remains at the entry teleporter. Which one is you?
Both of them. One reason that answer may sound nonsensical is that it sounds like it’d imply you somehow perceive out of both bodies with no connection between them, but that would miss that people are a type of system that change over time in response to physical stimuli, and the two bodies are immediately getting different inputs. My view is that the two will diverge into different people as a result, but that both of those people have just as correct a claim to being the person that stepped into the machine as you have to claim that you are the same person that started reading this a few moments ago, with neither one being the “fake” or “real” version.
To expand on this, all that we really have is a feeling of self-awareness, and a memory of a continuous series of events leading up to this moment. Both teleporter clones would have the same subjective-I feeling, and the memories. Which one is “real” is a meaningless distinction.
It’s like how I woke up this morning, and I have the memory of going to bed last night, but I am no longer that person who went to bed; I cannot know his mind other than in the memories that I have. Did my consciousness in this moment come from him? Clearly not! If he was conscious (which I cannot actually prove now), there was a gap of many hours. (Actually, neuroscience tells us our consciousness dips out every ~90 seconds, so our brains can attend to other tasks. As a ‘fun’ experiement, try to wait out an itch without scratching it, and pinpoint the moment it goes away. Or just have ADHD.)
Same thing with the transporter clones. Each would “come to” in the moment, with the illusion of continuous, conscious experience. The original would be just as “dead” as the me that went to sleep last night.
To expand on this, all that we really have is a feeling of self-awareness, and a memory of a continuous series of events leading up to this moment. Both teleporter clones would have the same subjective-I feeling, and the memories. Which one is “real” is a meaningless distinction.
I disagree, at least if we’re talking star trek transporter. For the person who stepped into the transporter, their conscious experience ends forever. The person who steps out the other side has the illusion of continuity and will understandably believe themselves to be the same person, but it won’t be the same person. As I see it, the original person’s life experience ended permanently when they were “destroyed” by the transporter. The fact that the copy will perceive itself to be the original doesn’t change this.
In some hypothetical where you are magically moved without being destroyed, I could accept that the same person who teleports from spot A is the same person who arrives at spot B, but so far I have heard of no technological idea of teleportation that convinces me people aren’t dying every time they teleport. (I know we’re just debating fiction so it’s arguably meaningless, but I’d for sure be the guy in Star Trek who refused to use the transporter.)
You were married before using the teleporter, is the marriage still valid? Who should the kids call their parents? Can the kids claim either/neither of you gets to tell them what to do? Who owns the video game collection, the car, the house?
The legal issues of having two selves are interesting, but seperate from the moral ones. Legally, I dunno, it depends on the teleporter malfunction laws in my local area. Maybe the teleportation manufacturer becomes liable for duplicating my quality of life for one of us, like a weird technology third version of alimony/child support.
Morally/emotionally whatevet you wanna call it, both of me would be married, as everyone present (me, myself, and my wife) participated in the wedding ceremony. My wife’s vows apply to the both of us, and each of us took vows to my wife. My child gets two dads, since we both fathered her, and she gets to deal with three parents.
I imagine we’d both just live together, and share ownership. In my jurisdiction (the real world, fairly local I’d say) there are no laws about this, and I suppose we’d share our SS number and identity, if for no other reason than neither of us wants to go to court to try to change it. I think I’d choose to switch my first and middle name, so we could differentiate, but still be us. It’d be neat.
These are legal and cultural questions with no objective answer outside that context, so its simply up to those involved to figure out what they prefer
One will always be the original copy, not the transported “clone” in this case. So whichever one didn’t pop out of the transporter after their matter was combined on the pad, and therefore isn’t 10 seconds old, is the “real” you.
Although I would still argue that the cloned copy is ALSO you, it’s still not the original.
Of course all you have to do is ask Miles Obrien and he will tell you dark secrets starfleet doesn’t want anyone in the federation to know. Transporters kill the original to prevent this scenario from happening, and only on rare occasions does it fail to delete someone, like RIKER.OG.
In the case of Riker v William, neither are the original at that point, but the one stranded was the “more” original, especially given he hadn’t used a transporter in 7 (I think) years, while Riker continued as normal, dozens per month for years.
Again, they both still are William Riker. Just one is “more” original.
The teleporter malfunctions and produces a copy of you with your continuous consciousness at the exit teleporter, while you with your continuous consciousness also remains at the entry teleporter. Which one is you?
Both of them. One reason that answer may sound nonsensical is that it sounds like it’d imply you somehow perceive out of both bodies with no connection between them, but that would miss that people are a type of system that change over time in response to physical stimuli, and the two bodies are immediately getting different inputs. My view is that the two will diverge into different people as a result, but that both of those people have just as correct a claim to being the person that stepped into the machine as you have to claim that you are the same person that started reading this a few moments ago, with neither one being the “fake” or “real” version.
To expand on this, all that we really have is a feeling of self-awareness, and a memory of a continuous series of events leading up to this moment. Both teleporter clones would have the same subjective-I feeling, and the memories. Which one is “real” is a meaningless distinction.
It’s like how I woke up this morning, and I have the memory of going to bed last night, but I am no longer that person who went to bed; I cannot know his mind other than in the memories that I have. Did my consciousness in this moment come from him? Clearly not! If he was conscious (which I cannot actually prove now), there was a gap of many hours. (Actually, neuroscience tells us our consciousness dips out every ~90 seconds, so our brains can attend to other tasks. As a ‘fun’ experiement, try to wait out an itch without scratching it, and pinpoint the moment it goes away. Or just have ADHD.)
Same thing with the transporter clones. Each would “come to” in the moment, with the illusion of continuous, conscious experience. The original would be just as “dead” as the me that went to sleep last night.
I disagree, at least if we’re talking star trek transporter. For the person who stepped into the transporter, their conscious experience ends forever. The person who steps out the other side has the illusion of continuity and will understandably believe themselves to be the same person, but it won’t be the same person. As I see it, the original person’s life experience ended permanently when they were “destroyed” by the transporter. The fact that the copy will perceive itself to be the original doesn’t change this.
In some hypothetical where you are magically moved without being destroyed, I could accept that the same person who teleports from spot A is the same person who arrives at spot B, but so far I have heard of no technological idea of teleportation that convinces me people aren’t dying every time they teleport. (I know we’re just debating fiction so it’s arguably meaningless, but I’d for sure be the guy in Star Trek who refused to use the transporter.)
You were married before using the teleporter, is the marriage still valid? Who should the kids call their parents? Can the kids claim either/neither of you gets to tell them what to do? Who owns the video game collection, the car, the house?
The legal issues of having two selves are interesting, but seperate from the moral ones. Legally, I dunno, it depends on the teleporter malfunction laws in my local area. Maybe the teleportation manufacturer becomes liable for duplicating my quality of life for one of us, like a weird technology third version of alimony/child support.
Morally/emotionally whatevet you wanna call it, both of me would be married, as everyone present (me, myself, and my wife) participated in the wedding ceremony. My wife’s vows apply to the both of us, and each of us took vows to my wife. My child gets two dads, since we both fathered her, and she gets to deal with three parents.
I imagine we’d both just live together, and share ownership. In my jurisdiction (the real world, fairly local I’d say) there are no laws about this, and I suppose we’d share our SS number and identity, if for no other reason than neither of us wants to go to court to try to change it. I think I’d choose to switch my first and middle name, so we could differentiate, but still be us. It’d be neat.
Would 3-ways be good?
I dunno, probably. My wife would definitely say yes to two of me, at least in that department.
These are legal and cultural questions with no objective answer outside that context, so its simply up to those involved to figure out what they prefer
Easy solution: put all those things through the teleporter/duplicator
Ok, now we just have 12 combination you-you-wife-kids Cronenbergian entities. We’ve solved it! Take that, philosophy.
Including kids, mother, friends and the bank account.
One will always be the original copy, not the transported “clone” in this case. So whichever one didn’t pop out of the transporter after their matter was combined on the pad, and therefore isn’t 10 seconds old, is the “real” you.
Although I would still argue that the cloned copy is ALSO you, it’s still not the original.
Of course all you have to do is ask Miles Obrien and he will tell you dark secrets starfleet doesn’t want anyone in the federation to know. Transporters kill the original to prevent this scenario from happening, and only on rare occasions does it fail to delete someone, like RIKER.OG.
Would that even be the OG Riker in your scenario? He’d have almost certainly have used the transporter many times before then.
In the case of Riker v William, neither are the original at that point, but the one stranded was the “more” original, especially given he hadn’t used a transporter in 7 (I think) years, while Riker continued as normal, dozens per month for years.
Again, they both still are William Riker. Just one is “more” original.
It’s a real ship of theseus situation.