RTFM makes more sense in a professional context. I don’t expect anybody to read anything unless 1 they want to or 2 they are being paid to

Saying RTFM in a hobby or recreational space is just being an asshole for no good reason

sadly dwarfed by YouTube videos that are outdated as soon as they are produced, and web guides nobody maintains. worse, AI scrapers only know this outdated information and happily hallucinate based on it it is EXHAUSTING having users cheer and celebrate the placebo of all the made up bullshit that does nothing in their config or worse breaks everything in unpredictable ways

RTFM doesn’t have to literally mean to read text, just like saying “let me google that for you” doesn’t have to literally be google. Both statements are similar; the point is instead of burdening others with teaching you something, go learn it on your own whether that be the manual or random Indian tech youtuber.

I know It’ll be a controversial take on here; but while I don’t like the use of AI for most things, I’ve found LLMs to be immensely valuable when it comes to learning how to Linux, and as an extension, how to self host.

I understand the limitations, but it’s so much more straightforward to tell an LLM what I’m trying to achieve then follow those instructions, than it is to try and poke about from site to site trying to piece together the information. Particularly if you don’t know what it is you need to search for in the first place.

Obviously you have to exercise some caution, but it makes so much more sense to me to confirm instructions provided by an LLM than it is to try and figure out where to even start. And let’s be honest, not all forum users are as forgiving to complete noobs.

it’s just that it doesn’t work efficiently enough.

Yeah, but we live in a world of limited resources. in particular labor and specifically knowledgeable linux nerds willing to answers questions for free. If everyone will have that mindset there won’t be a lot of time left to answer the difficult questions .

With that said i agree that occasionally if its done its probably no big deal, there is also linux 4 noobs for those who want to ask some questions to help getting started with linux.

RTFM long predates videos in the internet; at this point I’d actually call it inclusive of videos and guides.

I actually get pretty pissed off when the only guide for a feature beyond a couple lines of “here’s what this can do” with no elaboration is just a video. I don’t want a video. I want a damn manual with working examples.

But if its all there is, I’ll watch it before asking questions. The same should go for people who prefer videos, they should at least try the manual first, or looking at some guides or videos.

What’s frustrating for people (generically speaking) is when zero attempt is made in advance of posting questions, and from what I see, is the majority of “RTFM” responses.

“RTFM” (or similar comments like “it’s in the docs”) are just mean and useless without a reference.

Like, okay, superior user in the internet: If it’s in the manual/docs, what page? Do you have a link? Could you quote the relevant section?

Often people ask because they couldn’t find the answer in the docs. Simply pointing them at the answer is infinitely better than “lol the answer is in there somewhere”

See also: “Let me Google that for you…” Like mf Google brought me to this thread!

do you mean man pages? man pages are awesome. man is like the biggest deal command in unix.

Ι must say that Arch Linux’s wiki pages are easily understood. But man pages are not. I can’t follow the standard manual format. Just like with IKEA instructions, they just don’t make sense to me. My brain is like that. But Arch Linux pages are good.

I am not an expert but I will help you where I can!

RTFMP - I’d read the man pages if I could decipher them. 😁

Mostly /s

It’s a skill like any other. When you need to look up something, make yourself at least try tldr, man, etc. first. Over time you will find yourself skimming through man pages to find what you need faster than looking up a video.

What manual? What part of the manual? What if something happens that the manual didn’t cover? What if the manual is out of date or wrong? What if the maintainer of the manual made a mistake?

RTFM works for uncomplicated things and/or is a good starting place but is largely an unproductive thing to say these days in my opinion

If it’s a more complex subject matter i can understand people asking questions, because in those cases the documentation can also be more difficult to understand. I’ve asked questions in those situations myself as well, and a video of someone walking you through it can be very helpful. When someone asks the most basic questions ever i tend to be more on the RTFM side of things though. If you ask a question that literally has like a oneliner answer in the manual it seems to me like you didn’t put in that much effort before posting. I never actually RTFM’d someone though. I either answer anyway if i feel generous, or i just ignore it lol.

From the beginning of computing there has been a problem with bootstrapping knowledge… the person creating a tool gives it a name, and describes it, but knowing that someone solved the problem you have and what the name of that tool was always a challenge.

But that is nothing new… you posted in English but if you were to learn a different language you would have a very similar problem, and one of the most universal strategies for making that transition is to drill on vocabulary. Once you have built a small vocabulary then you can expand it using a dictionary.

The real message behind someone saying RTFM is that there are so many educational and search resources now that asking some rando on the Internet to rewrite a Howto on the fly is lazy. Simply typing the exact same question into Google will bring up a kickstarter set of vocabulary and resources. If you actually do this your question will often answer itself, and if it doesn’t and you start by pointing out why your efforts failed to help you with your specific problem and use the vocabulary (at least briefly) that your research turned up to guide the reader toward where your problem is, you should get less RTFM responses.