Then there is no such thing as plants and there is no need to value a life of a pig over a life of a potato.

Well, that happened after 40 minutes of civil discussion. And the thing that changed the way it was it was going was his undiplomatic response to Vance when he said the US has nice oceans, but it is going to feel the problem eventually. This is a rather stupid way of talking to Trump and his administration. If he did not succumb to the provocation it would not have happened.

“If you don’t help me you’ll regret it” is not the way to go in this situation I’m afraid.

And after they did talk over him, insted of arguing he should have shut up and it would have worked out better for him.

That may be so, but I really doubt he was causing this fiasco on purpose because of the deal. Also, he could have, you know, negotiated, instead of arguing for no reason.

Yes, because they are the same as us - humans.

Animals are not necessarily subhuman, but clearly not human.

I mean, I guess I could go into detail about the differences about the behavioir of animals and humans and what that tells about their intelligence and inner life, but I am not such a big fan of typing to be honest. I will only say that animal behaviour is simple enough to be predicted, ehy always act on the strongest impulse: whether it is food, sleep or whatever. But a human has a such complex network of character, desires, affect, beliefs, and emotions, that they can in a way that is impossible to predict. Can you imagine an animal starving itself to death deliberately? No, it would not be able to do that, as it’s instincts would overpower anything else if it got sufficiently hungry. But we can have other reasons for that that we act upon.

Honestly, if I was a vegan, I would almost certainly not say thay animals are as complex as humans, as most people would probably(quite rightly) not agree. They are more primitive as a great deal of what makes us us is our complex social structures that no animal has(even highly social ones). We have meanings and values given to us by society, which animals do not have. We are capable of morality, animals are not. I am honestly tired of typing. I think the point is clear enough now that I can stop.

Impossible to compare between humans.

Animals are functioning clearly at a more primitive level than humans. You must surely agree to this.

Zelensky can only blame himself. If he showed some sense and restraint he would have returned to Ukraine with the deal. This is not the way you should act with Trump, and I should say especially not when your country depends on US support to the extend Ukraine does.

No, I wouldn’t.

While humans and animals have inner worlds that are orders of magnitude apart in terms of complexity, I would say that most people feel more or less the same emotions, but of course some people are more self-actualised, but everyone has the potential for that, even if it is not realised.

And it is impossible to compare this complexity in practice, of course, as there are no criteria for measuring that. Also, every human is unique in a sense and is valuable precisely because of that.

Ultimately, our values are impossible to defend. We can either share them or not, I do not care much about the animals, you do, this is fine by me.

Obviously I am not talking about fetuses. I responded to the racism comment and the inner lives of people are generally not that complicated when tbey are in the womb. I am just using this as a reason to value humans over animals.

Also, minds are not made out of neurons, brains are.

Poor choice of words on my part, perhaps. Maybe, if I chose "mind, instead of the more poetic word “soul” people would not reply about how an embryo is not ensouled.

But please tell me, was your original comment about racism towards animals sarcastic? It is sometimes hard to tell, and it seems almost like a position someone would hold.

Yes, exactly. The complexity of the human soul is uncomparable to the basic impulses of any animal.

“North Finland Treaty Organisation”

Yeah, in my defense, my head hurts like shit and I can barely think.

Christians are usually the ones against abortions, and it seemed to me the people the original comment was talking about were conservative christians, but I see how my comment is not entirely relevant.

Well, most christians here would not agree with americans on many issues, christianity is not the problem.

Déjà-vu.

By all accounts it is not:

1: religion is not a sentient being, so it can’t be impaired intellectually 2:religion is hardly developing later than desired or expected as it was with us for our entire history 3: religion is not socially inappropriate in almost every society, and it is by no means “foolish”, and if you wanr to say otherwise it is up to you to prove it is.

Only their goal isn’t simply to destabilise everyone for the sake of it, believe it or not.

And you most certainly can understand it if you try. I don’t agree with a lot of things that were done, but I certainly can at least vaguely see the rationale. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

Your approach is very condescending and dehumanising. You must understand, that there are both sides to every conflict, and the other side has some reasons that seem moral to them. Ignoring that is counterproductive.

In my previous comment I said that thinking Russia does evil things just because it is evil for no real reason is ridiculous and he just proved my point by doubling down on it and making it seem even more silly.

In any case, I can’t help but wonder how a sane adult individual can actually believe that. This is not lord of the rings, and Russia is not Mordor.

This person(and you, presumably) says that a civilian aircraft, belonging to a nation that Russia wants to keep in it’s sphere of influence and has no reason to offend was shot down on purpose, despite the fact that any such case is a cause for suspicion and apprehension just because they are evil, basically.

That is what they meant, I’m pretty sure, that there is no point trying to understand what Russia does, it just does stuff because they are evil, so every fact should be interpreted in a way that makes them the most evil.

In any case, why shouldn’t their motives make sense to anyone else? They are not aliens, are they?

What do you mean “they don’t need a reason”? Are you insane?