That’s not what’s going on here. Students and teachers are on the same side and most often protesting together. The violence is between police and protesters, not protesters and teachers. And mostly from police to protesters, despite what the mainstream media is choosing to present.
Low salaries for teachers mean that they don’t attract dedicated professionals and the quality of teaching is bad. You can want well paid, good teachers and simultaneously hate the bad teachers you have right now. And of course each time there’s widespread protests, you’ll get a small amount of people who are only there for the violence.
The violent people being there just for the violence, not caring about the stated goals is what I wanted to point out.
As for hating the bad teachers, I agree and realized this when writing my comment. Still, I find it hard to believe all current teachers are bad or that the protesters know which are the bad ones to attack.
And as pointed out already, attacking teachers definitely does not make teaching an attractive career choice. So it’s likely counterproductive even if the attacked teacher was one of the “bad ones”.
Plus, how bad of a teacher would you have to be to justify a violent attack?
Oh yeah, it should go without saying, attacking teachers is wrong, counterproductive and unjustified no matter how good or bad they are at their job. That being said, underpaid, overworked, unmotivated and underqualified teachers have a higher likelihood to have students just itching for a chance to unload all their frustrations. It’s just unsurprising is all I wanted to say.
There are documented agressions by policemen to justify violence against the protesters. One was even caught throwing stones at riot police by an elected official, the guy ran to his cop friends and the prosecutor stated je was doing normal policing…
You know what else doesn’t attract dedicated professionals to teaching positions? Attacking teachers.
People don’t choose profession based purely on salaries. They also want good work environment. No person will think “yes, this teacher was hurt by students but he was bad at his job. I’m I will be fine”.
And yes, the government is the one responsible for creating good job conditions for teachers by ensuring good infrastructure and proper staffing but teachers will tell you that kids are not exactly getting easier to work with. “Bad teachers” argument is pure victim blaming.
At what point did I say that attacking teachers is justified? I said wanting well paid teachers and hating cheap teachers can coexist and aren’t “suspicious” as the OP comment implied.
Right here. You claim that attacking bad teachers is consistent with the goals of the protesters. Saying that only tiny fraction of students attacked teachers and it’s not a valid part of the protests is one thing. Claiming that students are right to hate their teachers is justifying the attacks.
I think the argument was more about if it’s aligned with the goals of the protests or if it’s counterproductive, not if it’s morally right but I guess we’re just arguing over semantics at this point and will not get anywhere.
It is not like “based on the number of students you have, you will have to equality share X amount of €”
Some school are “prestigious” so they have a lot more money from the government and from rich parents that can pay for it.
The lowest income school in paris have a lot more than the highest income school in saint-denis (poor city).
The problem ? France is a Republic, with a devise that is “freedom, equality, fraternity”
So when rich student “strike” in solidarity (yes it happen, they remember they are human) rich teachers are against that.
One could also argue about abuses in the teachers staff.
And obviously, raging people are gonna rage and see any figure of power as an enemy.
So long story short, it is complex but very marginal.
The mainstream media in france is owned by 5 billionaires. So yes, EVERY LITTLE THING that you will hear about will be detrimental to the movement.
It was the same with the yellow jacket that comes back tomorrow if my info is right.
remember what students (and teachers) want, they are asking for it for month and you only hear about it because they make noises!
they want more teachers that have a correct salary, more staff, the end of a discriminatory “automated” sorting system (parcoursup). They want school that are insulated and do not fall apart.
WoW ! They are asking so much ? what do you mean they do not have that yet ?
Talk about the violence to be slowly cooked day after day for weeks at 35°C and yeah, you will develop a political consciousness very fast.
Sure, assuming slight criticism/questioning of something means I am completely opposed to anything and everything even slightly related is normal these days.
But trying to justify a teacher being doused in gasoline for having a high salary in is another level of disgusting.
Protester that are complaining about low salaries for teachers are attacking… teachers?
Something does not add up here.
That’s not what’s going on here. Students and teachers are on the same side and most often protesting together. The violence is between police and protesters, not protesters and teachers. And mostly from police to protesters, despite what the mainstream media is choosing to present.
Low salaries for teachers mean that they don’t attract dedicated professionals and the quality of teaching is bad. You can want well paid, good teachers and simultaneously hate the bad teachers you have right now. And of course each time there’s widespread protests, you’ll get a small amount of people who are only there for the violence.
The violent people being there just for the violence, not caring about the stated goals is what I wanted to point out.
As for hating the bad teachers, I agree and realized this when writing my comment. Still, I find it hard to believe all current teachers are bad or that the protesters know which are the bad ones to attack.
And as pointed out already, attacking teachers definitely does not make teaching an attractive career choice. So it’s likely counterproductive even if the attacked teacher was one of the “bad ones”.
Plus, how bad of a teacher would you have to be to justify a violent attack?
Oh yeah, it should go without saying, attacking teachers is wrong, counterproductive and unjustified no matter how good or bad they are at their job. That being said, underpaid, overworked, unmotivated and underqualified teachers have a higher likelihood to have students just itching for a chance to unload all their frustrations. It’s just unsurprising is all I wanted to say.
There are documented agressions by policemen to justify violence against the protesters. One was even caught throwing stones at riot police by an elected official, the guy ran to his cop friends and the prosecutor stated je was doing normal policing…
You know what else doesn’t attract dedicated professionals to teaching positions? Attacking teachers.
People don’t choose profession based purely on salaries. They also want good work environment. No person will think “yes, this teacher was hurt by students but he was bad at his job. I’m I will be fine”.
And yes, the government is the one responsible for creating good job conditions for teachers by ensuring good infrastructure and proper staffing but teachers will tell you that kids are not exactly getting easier to work with. “Bad teachers” argument is pure victim blaming.
At what point did I say that attacking teachers is justified? I said wanting well paid teachers and hating cheap teachers can coexist and aren’t “suspicious” as the OP comment implied.
Right here. You claim that attacking bad teachers is consistent with the goals of the protesters. Saying that only tiny fraction of students attacked teachers and it’s not a valid part of the protests is one thing. Claiming that students are right to hate their teachers is justifying the attacks.
Saying it’s right and saying it’s not surprising are two entirely different things.
I think the argument was more about if it’s aligned with the goals of the protests or if it’s counterproductive, not if it’s morally right but I guess we’re just arguing over semantics at this point and will not get anywhere.
Probably agent provocateurs
There is a lot of inequality.
It is not like “based on the number of students you have, you will have to equality share X amount of €”
Some school are “prestigious” so they have a lot more money from the government and from rich parents that can pay for it.
The lowest income school in paris have a lot more than the highest income school in saint-denis (poor city). The problem ? France is a Republic, with a devise that is “freedom, equality, fraternity”
So when rich student “strike” in solidarity (yes it happen, they remember they are human) rich teachers are against that. One could also argue about abuses in the teachers staff.
And obviously, raging people are gonna rage and see any figure of power as an enemy.
So long story short, it is complex but very marginal. The mainstream media in france is owned by 5 billionaires. So yes, EVERY LITTLE THING that you will hear about will be detrimental to the movement. It was the same with the yellow jacket that comes back tomorrow if my info is right.
remember what students (and teachers) want, they are asking for it for month and you only hear about it because they make noises!
they want more teachers that have a correct salary, more staff, the end of a discriminatory “automated” sorting system (parcoursup). They want school that are insulated and do not fall apart.
WoW ! They are asking so much ? what do you mean they do not have that yet ?
Talk about the violence to be slowly cooked day after day for weeks at 35°C and yeah, you will develop a political consciousness very fast.
Sure, assuming slight criticism/questioning of something means I am completely opposed to anything and everything even slightly related is normal these days.
But trying to justify a teacher being doused in gasoline for having a high salary in is another level of disgusting.