I’m looking for specific suggestions of what I can do to find a group that I can join for the purpose of building a real revolution inside the USA. I’m trying and finding it very difficult. The closest was PSL but honestly my local branch seems kind of limp. That and I’m not academically inclined enough to get through Capital.
I want you to understand that I don’t think you’re malicious, I just think you come across as way too eager and didn’t want to explicitly say that most communist organizations try to avoid that because they don’t want the heat it tends to bring.
I didn’t want to say that to you because people don’t generally take it well.
“Go be anarchist” isn’t an insult.
That sits better with me than your responses thus far, and I think I can see what you’re talking about. I am still curious of how a revolution works though? I understand the idea of waiting and being ready for the right moment to come, but the preparation for that and how it might look in the usa. Like how pre-ussr there were already soviets that met with and represented the peoples across the country. Also how the party works to make itself irrelevant on its path towards true communism (stateless classless moneyless society). How does the party work towards the end of the party?
I want to strengthen my worldview and those 2 questions are what I haven’t been able to get clear guidance on in my exploration in Communist thought. If you can’t or don’t want to answer those questions directly, I’d greatly appreciate some book recommendations that cover those topics.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding of Capital is that it’s about capitalism. Describing all the roles within it and relationships between them, as well as the mechanisms. Basically nothing directly about Communism. So probably not the book recommendation I’m looking for in this case.
To try and be clear with my thought process. I don’t think those questions come from a place of eagerness (though I can admit to having eagerness that mostly stems from wanting to escape the capitalist system), but from a place of trying to understand the full life cycle of Communism. If I can’t get those answers then I’m simply not able to accept the ideology as possible. And I don’t say that as a defiance, it’s just how my brain works. If i don’t have an understanding of why something is true, then I don’t have the ability believe it.
Minor and not relevant aside
“Go be Anarchist” does feel like an insult when it comes from Communists. Some of the Communist reading I have done disparages Anarchism as useless or obstructive. And I’ve heard a number of Communists in person dismiss it like a parent telling a child to go play with their toys while the adults work. Not saying that’s you or that there’s something you need to do about it. Just saying.
You should just go do something else and not accept the ideology as possible, whatever that means.
Part of why I keep beating you over the head with “go do the reading” is that you are asking questions answered by it, but the greater part is that you’re thinking in a very idealist way. That is not an insult, just like me telling you to go be an anarchist was not an insult. Idealism is a way of understanding and thinking that’s different than materialism which is the kind of thinking communist theories are based on.
There is a greater and more valuable understanding that comes from reading a big ol book that “is about capitalism” beyond realizing how a revolution works and the myriad plans for transition to communism.
Join a reading and discussion group. You’ll have better luck than trying to birth the revolution fully formed from your forehead.
Stop being a prick. I literally asked you, in earnest, for reading recommendations. I’m not “trying to birth the revolution fully formed from [my] forehead”, I’m trying to understand what are the ML strategies that make it attainable. I haven’t actually asked what the revolution will look like, I’m asking what your movement is doing to prepare for this eventuality. Because it is a revolutionary ideology, yes? Is it or is it not an eventuality? If it is, then I think you should be allowed to talk about it.
I am still not discrediting Capital nor the value it has for building a greater understanding. I just don’t think it has the specific answers I’m looking for right this moment. Again, feel free to tell I’m wrong about that. But I should be able to determine my own path to understanding even if it’s out of order from the way you learned, because we’re different people with different thought processes and different material conditions. If I can’t, then what you have is not an ideology built on theory but a religion built on doctrine.
Either that or your username is accurate and I should just downvote and ignore you.
Part of why I’m adamantly refusing to discuss theory or history with you is that you do not have the background for it. Birthing fully formed from the forehead is a reference to the interpretation of Greek myth wherein Athena is borne from the forehead of Zeus. In the context that I used it, describing your desire to completely hold communism in your mind or dismiss it outright, it’s a little joke meant to poke fun at how idealism (which comes from the Greeks) is pretty silly. I made that joke because it can be seen as an insult to be called idealist and I wanted to make a funny to lighten the mood and also make the point that what modern day liberals think of idealism isn’t what we’re talking about in a Marxist context.
You asked in your comment that I just replied to what the preparations for the revolution look like. I’m not trying to hit you with a gotcha there, I’m pointing it out so you will recognize that you’re not replying from a calm and considered position that you can learn from, but from a defensive, self loathing perspective. You’ve implied that you were “stupid” and “uneducated” all over our conversation. I have gone right past those claims because they’re not worth engaging with.
You have to learn the basics if you want to understand something. If that feels like too much work you can just dismiss the thing and do something else. You have reiterated over and over again that you want an answer, not to learn or understand. I was not trying to insult you all the times that I told you to just go do something else.
It wouldn’t matter if I told you that I thought you were wrong and that you should actually join a reading and discussion group and read capital. You won’t do it. You said you wouldn’t do it. You said you just want to get answers. I said “okay, go do something else then.”
You can’t effectively determine your own path to understanding. That’s a debunked pedagogical myth that will cause you lots of wasted time and energy. We build on other people’s knowledge and experience in the form of teaching for a reason. Self directed learning is possible but you can’t make an end run around the basics.
At this point you have to be willfully misunderstanding what I’m saying. I haven’t called myself stupid or uneducated. I called myself less educated (unexplicitly in regards to ML thought), though even uneducated doesn’t reflect so much on me as it does my environment. And what I was saying is a movement for the masses has to be able to connect with the masses, which will include stupid (non-derogatory) people. I never once said that I won’t read Capital. That’s a faulty assumption you made. I just think it’s a bit ridiculous for that to be the entry point. You also have made no argument for why Capital has to be the entry point. I never said I just want answers, except in regards to what actions your movement is taking. Why would I ask for book recommendations if not to learn and understand?
Also you misquoted yourself and contradicted yourself in that first paragraph. You revolution was birthed not communism. And calling idealism “pretty silly” is insulting when you also said my thoughts come from idealism, thoughts that are not intended to be silly.
If my original post had said that I have a learning disability, would that have changed your response?