• Vergissmeinnicht@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    32
    ·
    21 hours ago

    Sorry, but clearly the people defending their country are the defenders.

    Yes, the Lebanese army.

    The IDF and Hezbollah are the aggressors.

    • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      21 hours ago

      The IOF have always been the aggressors. Hezbollah only exists because of the IOF invasions, ethnic cleansings, and settler colonialism of Lebanon.

      • Vergissmeinnicht@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        13
        ·
        20 hours ago

        So the fact that an occupying terrorist group was spawned by an occupying terrorist group excuses their occupation and terrorism?

        They could have been fighting Israeli aggression, terrorism, and occupation without becoming occupiers and terrorists themselves. But they didn’t.

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          20 hours ago

          Dude, we get it. You have no clue what you’re talking about. There’s some guides on hasbara I’m sure you can find, you could use the help.

          Again, Hezbollah only exists because of massacres like Sabra and Shatila, along with the other massacres utilizing the Dahiya doctrine during the 6 Israeli invasions

          After the 2008 war, the Goldstone Report addressed IDF strategy in 2009, determining that the “Disproportionate destruction and violence against civilians were part of a deliberate policy.”

          1982

          The 1982 Lebanon war began on 6 June 1982, when Israel invaded again for the purpose of attacking the Palestine Liberation Organization. The Israeli army laid siege to Beirut. During the conflict, according to Lebanese sources, between 15,000 and 20,000 people were killed, mostly civilians.

          On 16 February 1985, Shia Sheik Ibrahim al-Amin declared a manifesto in Lebanon, announcing a resistance movement called Hezbollah, whose goals included combating the Israeli occupation. During the South Lebanon conflict (1985–2000) the Hezbollah militia waged a guerrilla campaign against Israeli forces occupying Southern Lebanon and their South Lebanon Army proxies.

          Israeli Withdrawal

          Throughout the painstaking process of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, Hizballah was at pains to declare its commitment to recovering the last millimeter of Lebanese territory, but it also acknowledged that it would not act hastily to reinitiate violence. In sum, Hizballah’s behavior and deference to state authority have worked to its political advantage. It reaped recognition in an unprecedented meeting between Nasrallah and UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who praised Hizballah’s restraint and its promise of cooperation. The meeting with Annan offers a remarkable contrast with Hizballah’s earlier days, when it was hostile to the UN and especially to the UN force in the south.

          Without an agreement between Syria and Israel, there will be little pressure on Hizballah to disarm. Syria’s calculated strategy is to allow Hizballah to serve as a constant reminder of the consequences of continuing to occupy the Golan Heights.This is a role that Hizballah is happy to play, given its enmity toward Israel. At the same time, it remains profoundly aware of the political costs of bringing destruction down on the heads of its supporters, and this further reduces the prospect that Hizballah will initiate attacks on Israel

          2006

          The doctrine is named after the Dahiya suburb of Beirut, where the Lebanese paramilitary group Hezbollah has its headquarters, which the Israeli military leveled during its assault on Lebanon in the summer of 2006 that killed nearly 1,000 civilians, about a third of them children, and caused enormous damage to the country’s civilian infrastructure, including power plants, sewage treatment plants, bridges, and port facilities.

          It was formulated by then-General Gadi Eisenkot when he was Chief of Northern Command. As he explained in 2008 referring to a future war on Lebanon: "What happened in the Dahiya quarter of Beirut in 2006 will happen in every village from which Israel is fired on… We will apply disproportionate force on it (village) and cause great damage and destruction there. From our standpoint, these are not civilian villages, they are military bases… This is not a recommendation. This is a plan. And it has been approved.” Eisenkot went on to become chief of the general staff of the Israeli military before retiring in 2019.

          While it became official Israeli military doctrine after Israel’s 2006 attack on Lebanon, Israel’s military has used disproportionate force and targeted Palestinian, Lebanese, and other civilians since Israel was established in 1948 based on the ethnic cleansing of indigenous Palestinians, including dozens of massacres to force them to flee for their lives.

          2007 - 2022

          Until recently, the border had been relatively quiet. Occasional rockets or drones crossed from Lebanon into Israel without leading to serious escalation, while Israel violated Lebanese airspace more than 22,000 times from 2007 to 2022.

          While the withdrawal was certified by the United Nations, Lebanon disputed it, arguing that the Shebaa Farms was part of its territory, and not part of the Syrian Golan Heights, which Israel continues to occupy.

          So there are two separate issues here that lead to the current dispute: the first is that Israel occupies the Golan Heights and treats it as its own territory in violation of international law, and the second is that there was already a pre-existing disagreement between Syria and Lebanon over the border, prior to the Israeli occupation.

          ::

          2023-2025

          https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/9/18/hezbollah-and-israel-a-timeline-of-conflict

          https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/15/mapping-israel-lebanon-cross-border-attacks

            • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              ·
              18 hours ago

              What do you think an aggressor is?

              Or anti-colonialism?

              You straight up equated Hezbollah with Israel as ‘both’ colonizers and terrorists.

              ‘Both-sides’-ing this makes no sense unless your goal is to manufacture consent for the Israeli aggression, or complete ignorance.

              • Vergissmeinnicht@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                17 hours ago

                Hezbollah committed acts of terrorism and political violence and intimidation in Lebanon

                Hezbollah was fighting with Assad against the people of Syria and is, if not directly, at the very least indirectly responsible for the countless atrocities of the Assad regime against the people of Syria.

                Again, Hezbollah could have chosen to simply fight Israeli aggression and leave it at that and I’d support them, but they didn’t.

                ‘Both-sides’-ing this makes no sense

                You’re correct, ‘both-sides’-ing creates a false dichotomy. There are way more than just those 2 factions in this conflict. And sure, maybe Israel is the worst one, I’m not going to argue either way. But Hezbollah is pretty high up on the asshole ranking.

                • mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  17 hours ago

                  No amount of hizbollah intimidation of lebanese who hate them will remove their right to resist occupation. We are not in the position to find a perfect resistance groups. The day a more moral resistance group appear I would side with them over Hizbollah.

                  Hizbollah fought the groups who wanted to oust the butcher Assad not to protect Syrians but to cut weapons from Hizbollah used to fight the genocidal colonial power Israel is.

                  Was the axis and allies equally bad during world war 2 becuase many of the allies countries was colonial powers and was also involved in attrocities?

                  • Vergissmeinnicht@lemmy.ca
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    16 hours ago

                    No amount of hizbollah intimidation of lebanese who hate them will remove their right to resist occupation. We are not in the position to find a perfect resistance groups. The day a more moral resistance group appear I would side with them over Hizbollah.

                    Never argued against that point.

                    Your problem is insisting to pick a side.

                    You can acknowledge Hezbollah’s right to resist without siding with them. This isn’t a fucking sports match. Seriously, wtf?

                    Hizbollah fought the groups who wanted to oust the butcher Assad not to protect Syrians but to cut weapons from Hizbollah used to fight the genocidal colonial power Israel is.

                    That’s some serious mental gymnastics

                    Was the axis and allies equally bad during world war 2 becuase many of the allies countries was colonial powers and was also involved in attrocities?

                    Why are the only two options “good and bad” or “equally bad”

                    It’s a false dichotomy.

                    Both sides can be bad while being differently bad.

                    And some of the allies in WW2 were definitely bad, especially the Soviet Union, who just replaced one occupying force in Eastern Europe with another.

        • mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          18 hours ago

          Most countries in the world do not design Hizbollah as a terrorist group, only israel’s western countries puppet does.

    • mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      18 hours ago

      Lol when did the lebanese ever defended a single lebanese? If the lebanese army was strong and was nit blocked from attacking Israel by France and the usa demands, hizbollah would have not existed.