The problem with chaos theory and its ilk is it’s frame of reference is so pathetically human.
No, humans even with computer aid will not be able to predict a sufficiently chaotic system, but that doesn’t mean its not predictable.
That’s the definition of deterministic. That given infinite compute time and an accurate starting state, and accurate formulas, you are able to calculate the totality of any single point of time in that system. In other words, if the universe were a single equation, i.e. Δe=(mc²)t and you knew the starting values of e, m, and c; you could fill in the t(ime) and figure out the Δe at any point in time.
That fact doesn’t change if there are a infinite number of items in the formula, or even infinite formulas – there will never be any other outcome to those equations than what was set in motion at the start of the universe. Free will, i.e. true deviation from determinism, cannot exist in a deterministic universe. Without deviation from determinism, without free will, we are not participants in the universe. We are observers. We cannot change any thing, even how we think about the fact we are observers.
Every thought you’re having right now, in a deterministic universe, was determined the second the universe started. Every action you’ve taken, including writing this comment, was set in stone. There was never a single thing you could do to change it, there was never anything else that would have ever happened, there is no variance with these starting conditions that this universe started with.
If you are just the result of mathematical formulas being resolved in real time, you cannot change the variables. You aren’t part of setting the equation. You are a blip in it being solved.
For most people, that’s depressing. For some people, this being proven will cause them to kill themselves, which would have been again set in stone before the Earth was formed. For anyone this should be distressing, unless, of course, you were programmed at the start of the universe to not find it distressing and just be okay with being an unwilling actor in a movie recorded before the concept of light existed.
I don’t disagree with you, but it seems you’ve missed the point that I was trying to make. Yes, sure, the future has been predetermined in a deterministic universe. But if no person in that universe can ever figure out what that future is going to be, is there any practical distinction? To any entity within the universe, the future is completely unknown - the only thing that can be said for sure is that there is going to be a future. That is what I mean when I say that there can exist a practical free will in a deterministic universe
In my eyes, any person who would feel dread over whether or not free will exists in a deterministic universe is splitting hairs over a thought experiment where all outcomes are practically equivalent
The problem with chaos theory and its ilk is it’s frame of reference is so pathetically human.
No, humans even with computer aid will not be able to predict a sufficiently chaotic system, but that doesn’t mean its not predictable.
That’s the definition of deterministic. That given infinite compute time and an accurate starting state, and accurate formulas, you are able to calculate the totality of any single point of time in that system. In other words, if the universe were a single equation, i.e. Δe=(mc²)t and you knew the starting values of e, m, and c; you could fill in the t(ime) and figure out the Δe at any point in time.
That fact doesn’t change if there are a infinite number of items in the formula, or even infinite formulas – there will never be any other outcome to those equations than what was set in motion at the start of the universe. Free will, i.e. true deviation from determinism, cannot exist in a deterministic universe. Without deviation from determinism, without free will, we are not participants in the universe. We are observers. We cannot change any thing, even how we think about the fact we are observers.
Every thought you’re having right now, in a deterministic universe, was determined the second the universe started. Every action you’ve taken, including writing this comment, was set in stone. There was never a single thing you could do to change it, there was never anything else that would have ever happened, there is no variance with these starting conditions that this universe started with.
If you are just the result of mathematical formulas being resolved in real time, you cannot change the variables. You aren’t part of setting the equation. You are a blip in it being solved.
For most people, that’s depressing. For some people, this being proven will cause them to kill themselves, which would have been again set in stone before the Earth was formed. For anyone this should be distressing, unless, of course, you were programmed at the start of the universe to not find it distressing and just be okay with being an unwilling actor in a movie recorded before the concept of light existed.
I don’t disagree with you, but it seems you’ve missed the point that I was trying to make. Yes, sure, the future has been predetermined in a deterministic universe. But if no person in that universe can ever figure out what that future is going to be, is there any practical distinction? To any entity within the universe, the future is completely unknown - the only thing that can be said for sure is that there is going to be a future. That is what I mean when I say that there can exist a practical free will in a deterministic universe
In my eyes, any person who would feel dread over whether or not free will exists in a deterministic universe is splitting hairs over a thought experiment where all outcomes are practically equivalent