• davel@lemmy.ml
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    1 day ago

    Corporations can only exist if a state creates & enforces corporate law.

      • CanadaPlus@futurology.today
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        6 hours ago

        I mean, not as anything like a corporation. If they have to protect themselves with force, they’re a state or warlord, and will end up solving the same problems the same way.

        Meaning no shareholders and no contracts, but on the other hand violent internal coups and endemic corruption (in the narrow sense of taking organisation money for yourself).

        Edit: Funny story about this - a lot of big corporate guys don’t seem to get the distinction. They go and buy a bunker in New Zealand and think that will do them, but if you talk to the guards in charge of the bunker, they’ll say their plan when the apocalypse happens is to just kill their boss and move in themselves. Because there’s no state to stop them, and they’re better at violence than Mark Zuckerberg or whatever.

        • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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          1 day ago

          Drug cartels do all the things any corporation would happily do without laws to restrict them. So I don’t see any distinction and I don’t believe a govt is necessary for a corporation to exist. Just like with any other crime by any other citizen, a govt uses its monopoly on violence to prevent corporations from doing harm.

          • CanadaPlus@futurology.today
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            6 hours ago

            Drug cartels aren’t really corporations. There’s no formal structure, shares or board meetings, and sometimes they do just descend into civil war (like in Mexico right now). They’re businesses, but in some ways Rome was as well. The thing that makes them a funny historical edge case is that their primary business is transport rather than theft, and that’s down to the massive US/Canadian demand, the wealth behind it, and the inability of any recognised state to join the drug trade in their place and get away with it.

            • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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              2 hours ago

              There’s no formal structure, shares or board meetings

              This is an arbitrary list of things and I don’t agree that all corporations have all of these, but I guarantee most cartels have a formal structure, a clear description of ownership, and what qualifies as board of leaders. Most wouldn’t be able to function without it.

              sometimes they do just descend into civil war

              They compete with rival cartels in all the same ways corporations would if they could (or already do when they can get away with it).

              They’re businesses

              I’m curious why you’re willing to call them businesses but corporations.

        • GreenTea@lemmy.orgOP
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          1 day ago

          A government can create unlimited currency via an act of congress. Can a corporation create unlimited money when it wants to?

          • davel@lemmy.ml
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            1 day ago

            Anyone can create their own money. Consider Bitcoin. The hard part is getting people to use it.

            Corporations can print corporate shares, though the more shares they print, the less each share is worth. You can’t buy a pack of gum with corporate shares, though, so I wouldn’t call in money or currency.

            Private banks can print money, but not an an unlimited amount. They can only print as much as the government allows, and it can only be created as the principal of a loan, and the money is destroyed as the borrower pays down the principal.

          • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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            1 day ago

            Corporations try to all the time. It’s only through an effective use of law that they don’t. And lately, it hasn’t been very effective.

            But also a government can’t print “unlimited currency”. Eventually it would be worthless. They are effectively only permitted to print currency proportional to what their creditors allow.

            • davel@lemmy.ml
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              8 hours ago

              But also a government can’t print “unlimited currency”. Eventually it would be worthless.

              Governments can do it, but you’ve explained why they don’t do it.

              They are effectively only permitted to print currency proportional to what their creditors allow.

              A government with fiat monetary sovereignty has no need to borrow its own money, because it already can create as much as it pleases. The purpose of government securities is not to fund spending but to give the rich a safe place to park their capital with interest.

              • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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                2 hours ago

                The purpose of government securities is not to fund spending but to give the rich a safe place to park their capital with interest.

                You have a source on this? I find it difficult to believe that it is ever a good idea to just take out a loan for the sake of making the interest payments. Especially using public funds, that sounds pretty close to embezzlement.

                Rather, a country’s budget should always make use of debt, because its reputation has value and should be invested, not left sitting on the table.

      • DozensOfDonner@mander.xyz
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        1 day ago

        Heh, yeah. Love hypothetically, how would a company like, act, be, without any government influence? I mean there’s definitely like sketchy shit that should be prevented ideally, like bad food or bad drugs? That seems helpful. Prijkt sinds other positives?

        But in like a lawless wasteland… Yeah if your service or product is good, people want it, want to work on it for pay (and which rates? Well maybe like a union instead of a government that negotiates?). But what about people just downright stealing? Maybe a market for protection would pop up, and live would become super unethical, because there will prolly always be a dick who wants to steal stuff? Just for his own good.

        But by yeah if humans were super empathetic it would just work. Of people idk… Could really position then in others and think a bit honestly about things or something? Tbh its something that happens on small scales guess, like oh friends-weekend things or something.