Their willingness to subsidize shipping and other supply chain stuff so that I can order cheap parts and PCBs (Chinese citizens are paying for that in their taxes… Thanks!)
I’m disappointed and even appalled with China’s:
Treatment of their own citizens (especially Uyghurs, people in Tibet)
Endless bullshit regarding Taiwan (just leave them alone already!)
Social credit system
Installing secret back doors in electronic products
Helping North Korea
What they did in Hong Kong
Allowing the same people to remain in charge for so long (that’s never a good idea)
Lack of regulations (or enforcement) that protect their own people. Move to the 8 hour work day already! They need the equivalent of OSHA that actually does their job.
Completely untrustworthy government when it comes to negotiating in good faith
The last two are the reasons why no one trusts China or many entire product categories if they originate in China. Example: Who TF is going to buy Chinese baby formula‽
In the US we have a saying, “cheap Chinese junk.” It’s often said after some cheap Chinese product fails, often spectacularly (e.g. emits smoke or catches fire). There’s so many examples of this in my own life it’s kind of unreal:
Power supplies that have no moving parts yet fail completely within a year
Plastic stuff that just breaks for no good reason (presumably because they didn’t add a UV stabilizer to the raw plastic? Just wild speculation on my part)
Anything with metal parts will rust or degrade so fast you wonder how it even made it to America without self destructing.
I can go on and on about the poor quality of tons of Chinese-made products but you get the idea. Having said that, there’s plenty of great Chinese brands that make quality stuff. It’s just that there’s so much more cheap/generic stuff from China that competes with the good stuff it gets drowned out.
If I were in charge over there, the first thing I’d do is start real inspections of consumer goods. I mean, it shouldn’t even be possible for a company to ship a children’s product with lead in it! Mandatory inspections! Of everything. Also, if any of your inspectors are offered a bribe, give them a great big bonus for reporting it and make the person who tried to bribe them suffer. China ultimately executed the folks responsible for the baby formula thing… More of that! Show the world you’re serious about reliability and safety.
I’d go even further and hire foreigners to inspect Chinese products, right there in China. Give them the authority to shut down assembly lines when products start showing signs of contamination. Be as open and transparent as possible!
Of course, the social credit system needs to go. Government should not be rating their people. That’s just evil. Let the market do it with background checks and credit scores 🤣
(I admit that’s not great either, but it’s infinitely better than having the government do it)
My critique of China’s environmental policies will always be that it’s rooted in lessening the impact on the environment for human reasons first, never for the sake of the environment and the other life we share this planet with. It’s also one of my fundamental criticisms of ML theory itself; it still puts humans first. I get that we’re going to tend to default to that, but the amount of Western “leftists” willing to ignore the rape of the planet for human’s sake just to spite western methods disgusts me. Strip-mining for rare earth elements to make better batteries for solar power isn’t exactly a better trade off than burning coal, it just makes you feel better cus it sounds better. And let’s talk about the factory farms it takes to feed a billion people who’ve been moved out of subsistence farming and into a “middle class”.
I can go on and on about the poor quality of tons of Chinese-made products but you get the idea. Having said that, there’s plenty of great Chinese brands that make quality stuff. It’s just that there’s so much more cheap/generic stuff from China that competes with the good stuff it gets drowned out.
What you are experiencing is a different cultural approach that the west frequently fails to get what they expect. There’s a concept of “if you ask for bottom dollar prices, you’re going to bottom tier products”. Paraphrasing even further put another way “why are you complaining about getting junk when you’re only willing to pay junk prices?”. Get acquainted with the Chinese phrase “chàbuduō” (差不多). It literally translates to “a little bit less than all”, but figuratively translates to “close enough”. This is a very common phrase and idea in Chinese culture. If you’re buying the cheapest version of something you’re going to get a product that is likely not up to spec, but “close enough”. The second phrase you should know is “méi bàn fǎ” (没办法). This one figuatively translates to: “nothing can be done” or “it can’t be helped”. When you point out something isn’t up to what you expect, you should be ready to hear this phrase and understand that the person or company you’re dealing with isn’t interested in changing the situation and are simply washing their hands of the issue leaving you with it.
Neither of these are failings of Chinese culture, its just different. The failing would be expecting all other cultures to behave like our own.
If you don’t want the bad product, buy the more expensive version. As you said, you can absolutely get very high quality products from China, but you’re not getting those for a tiny fraction of the price of high quality goods from other sources.
In most Western countries, all products have a basic warranty, required by law. Meaning: If that shit breaks real fast, you can return it and get your money back.
The issue with cheap Chinese goods is that returning them is unrealistic. The subsidized shipping only works one way. It’s often the case that it costs more to ship the product back than the product costs in the first place.
Because of the mandatory warrantees, western consumers have a bare minimum expectation of the quality of any given product. Most Chinese-made products fail to meet that expectation. Hence, the reputation that Chinese products are crap.
You can’t hand wave this problem away, saying you get what you pay for (also a common saying in the West). It’s systemic. Also, I’ve taken risks buying more expensive versions of the same products and had the exact same result.
Meaning: Almost all of the time, you don’t get what you pay for when you buy Chinese products. Rather, if you pay any more than the bare minimum, you’re wasting your money.
This isn’t a good situation for China or Western consumers! China doesn’t like the reputation they’ve built and the West just wants decent stuff that meet basic standards of quality (and safety!).
Let me make something clear: There is no situation where paying very little should result in receiving a dangerous product. You cannot point to a power supply that caught fire and say, “should’ve paid more!” You cannot look at a plastic toy that leaches lead into the skin (and children’s mouths) and say, “should’ve spent more money!”
In the West, companies that made such things would be held liable and probably go out of business very quickly. Their executives would be in the news and probably be testifying before angry Congressmen with even angrier constituents in the audience.
For some reason, Chinese manufacturers not only continue to make total crap—some of which is dangerous—they thrive on making such crap. No one seems to care in China. It’s like you say, making money is all that matters. It is so obviously the general belief in China that it is the consumer’s fault when products fail. You said so yourself!
So I ask you this: Was it the parents fault for feeding their babies contaminated baby formula? Should the people who installed toxic drywall have known better? Did the people who died from contaminated blood thinner deserve it for being poor consumers?
Perhaps the parents who bought Chinese made toys heavily contaminated with lead should’ve bought the expensive scanners and tested all the toys before giving them to their children? Or performed ASTM testing themselves to ensure the magnets inside various toys wouldn’t fall out and choke and kill their children?
Let me tell you something: Toys made in West go through such testing. It was a lesson learned in blood over decades.
For some reason, China has yet to learn the lessons. Or perhaps it’s Chinese culture just to not care and blame the victims?
You can’t hand wave this problem away, saying you get what you pay for (also a common saying in the West). It’s systemic. Also, I’ve taken risks buying more expensive versions of the same products and had the exact same result.
…and…
So I ask you this: Was it the parents fault for feeding their babies contaminated baby formula? Should the people who installed toxic drywall have known better? Did the people who died from contaminated blood thinner deserve it for being poor consumers?
There’s another element of Chinese culture you’re missing and it is that of “miànzi” (面子) or “face” as in our version of the phrase “saving face”, or figuratively “reputation”. The sellers do care about their reputation, but there are different groups they care about and groups they may not. You’re likely a western end user retail customer. Most probably don’t care about you. They might care about their reputation with their western reseller customers though.
The examples of poison drywall or adulterated formula are very bad by both Chinese and Western standards, but for slightly different reasons. The western view it as bad because it harmed the end consumers. The Chinese view would be a loss of face of the seller for being such a public and shameless scam without integrity or honor, a huge loss of face.
No one seems to care in China. It’s like you say, making money is all that matters.
You’re close to understanding, but you’re still missing it. Again, you’re judging this by western standards. Now, I’m western, and I like the western standards, but I also understand that their culture doesn’t have to conform to ours for it to be “right”. There is no objectively right way to do this. We’re all different humans figuring different systems. I certainly have my preference for the western style, but that doesn’t make what the Chinese have been doing for hundreds (3000 thousand, if you ask the Chinese) of years they’ve been doing less “right”.
Let me tell you something: Toys made in West go through such testing. It was a lesson learned in blood over decades.
That’s a very recent addition to western culture. Lots of toys even during my lifetime were dangerous. Two generations back, in the USA we had toys like this which heated up to 260 °C (500 °F):
Which caused serious burns and even some deaths for the children playing with them.
In the 1950s this was a toy:
You’re bringing your perspective of individualism which is very much a Western idea. Other cultures don’t come from that perspective and arrive and different conclusions. I can tell you, we’ll see more of this press up on our western culture as trump continues to flounder our dominance and China continues to rise.
Why are you bothered by China helping North Korea?
Also same people being in power isnt inherently wrong until institutions work properly, which seems to be the case in China.
And market and credit card rating people is good but govt doing is bad? lol
As an American, I’m pleased with China’s:
I’m disappointed and even appalled with China’s:
The last two are the reasons why no one trusts China or many entire product categories if they originate in China. Example: Who TF is going to buy Chinese baby formula‽
In the US we have a saying, “cheap Chinese junk.” It’s often said after some cheap Chinese product fails, often spectacularly (e.g. emits smoke or catches fire). There’s so many examples of this in my own life it’s kind of unreal:
I can go on and on about the poor quality of tons of Chinese-made products but you get the idea. Having said that, there’s plenty of great Chinese brands that make quality stuff. It’s just that there’s so much more cheap/generic stuff from China that competes with the good stuff it gets drowned out.
If I were in charge over there, the first thing I’d do is start real inspections of consumer goods. I mean, it shouldn’t even be possible for a company to ship a children’s product with lead in it! Mandatory inspections! Of everything. Also, if any of your inspectors are offered a bribe, give them a great big bonus for reporting it and make the person who tried to bribe them suffer. China ultimately executed the folks responsible for the baby formula thing… More of that! Show the world you’re serious about reliability and safety.
I’d go even further and hire foreigners to inspect Chinese products, right there in China. Give them the authority to shut down assembly lines when products start showing signs of contamination. Be as open and transparent as possible!
Of course, the social credit system needs to go. Government should not be rating their people. That’s just evil. Let the market do it with background checks and credit scores 🤣
(I admit that’s not great either, but it’s infinitely better than having the government do it)
My critique of China’s environmental policies will always be that it’s rooted in lessening the impact on the environment for human reasons first, never for the sake of the environment and the other life we share this planet with. It’s also one of my fundamental criticisms of ML theory itself; it still puts humans first. I get that we’re going to tend to default to that, but the amount of Western “leftists” willing to ignore the rape of the planet for human’s sake just to spite western methods disgusts me. Strip-mining for rare earth elements to make better batteries for solar power isn’t exactly a better trade off than burning coal, it just makes you feel better cus it sounds better. And let’s talk about the factory farms it takes to feed a billion people who’ve been moved out of subsistence farming and into a “middle class”.
What you are experiencing is a different cultural approach that the west frequently fails to get what they expect. There’s a concept of “if you ask for bottom dollar prices, you’re going to bottom tier products”. Paraphrasing even further put another way “why are you complaining about getting junk when you’re only willing to pay junk prices?”. Get acquainted with the Chinese phrase “chàbuduō” (差不多). It literally translates to “a little bit less than all”, but figuratively translates to “close enough”. This is a very common phrase and idea in Chinese culture. If you’re buying the cheapest version of something you’re going to get a product that is likely not up to spec, but “close enough”. The second phrase you should know is “méi bàn fǎ” (没办法). This one figuatively translates to: “nothing can be done” or “it can’t be helped”. When you point out something isn’t up to what you expect, you should be ready to hear this phrase and understand that the person or company you’re dealing with isn’t interested in changing the situation and are simply washing their hands of the issue leaving you with it.
Neither of these are failings of Chinese culture, its just different. The failing would be expecting all other cultures to behave like our own.
If you don’t want the bad product, buy the more expensive version. As you said, you can absolutely get very high quality products from China, but you’re not getting those for a tiny fraction of the price of high quality goods from other sources.
In most Western countries, all products have a basic warranty, required by law. Meaning: If that shit breaks real fast, you can return it and get your money back.
The issue with cheap Chinese goods is that returning them is unrealistic. The subsidized shipping only works one way. It’s often the case that it costs more to ship the product back than the product costs in the first place.
Because of the mandatory warrantees, western consumers have a bare minimum expectation of the quality of any given product. Most Chinese-made products fail to meet that expectation. Hence, the reputation that Chinese products are crap.
You can’t hand wave this problem away, saying you get what you pay for (also a common saying in the West). It’s systemic. Also, I’ve taken risks buying more expensive versions of the same products and had the exact same result.
Meaning: Almost all of the time, you don’t get what you pay for when you buy Chinese products. Rather, if you pay any more than the bare minimum, you’re wasting your money.
This isn’t a good situation for China or Western consumers! China doesn’t like the reputation they’ve built and the West just wants decent stuff that meet basic standards of quality (and safety!).
Let me make something clear: There is no situation where paying very little should result in receiving a dangerous product. You cannot point to a power supply that caught fire and say, “should’ve paid more!” You cannot look at a plastic toy that leaches lead into the skin (and children’s mouths) and say, “should’ve spent more money!”
In the West, companies that made such things would be held liable and probably go out of business very quickly. Their executives would be in the news and probably be testifying before angry Congressmen with even angrier constituents in the audience.
For some reason, Chinese manufacturers not only continue to make total crap—some of which is dangerous—they thrive on making such crap. No one seems to care in China. It’s like you say, making money is all that matters. It is so obviously the general belief in China that it is the consumer’s fault when products fail. You said so yourself!
So I ask you this: Was it the parents fault for feeding their babies contaminated baby formula? Should the people who installed toxic drywall have known better? Did the people who died from contaminated blood thinner deserve it for being poor consumers?
Perhaps the parents who bought Chinese made toys heavily contaminated with lead should’ve bought the expensive scanners and tested all the toys before giving them to their children? Or performed ASTM testing themselves to ensure the magnets inside various toys wouldn’t fall out and choke and kill their children?
Let me tell you something: Toys made in West go through such testing. It was a lesson learned in blood over decades.
For some reason, China has yet to learn the lessons. Or perhaps it’s Chinese culture just to not care and blame the victims?
…and…
There’s another element of Chinese culture you’re missing and it is that of “miànzi” (面子) or “face” as in our version of the phrase “saving face”, or figuratively “reputation”. The sellers do care about their reputation, but there are different groups they care about and groups they may not. You’re likely a western end user retail customer. Most probably don’t care about you. They might care about their reputation with their western reseller customers though.
The examples of poison drywall or adulterated formula are very bad by both Chinese and Western standards, but for slightly different reasons. The western view it as bad because it harmed the end consumers. The Chinese view would be a loss of face of the seller for being such a public and shameless scam without integrity or honor, a huge loss of face.
You’re close to understanding, but you’re still missing it. Again, you’re judging this by western standards. Now, I’m western, and I like the western standards, but I also understand that their culture doesn’t have to conform to ours for it to be “right”. There is no objectively right way to do this. We’re all different humans figuring different systems. I certainly have my preference for the western style, but that doesn’t make what the Chinese have been doing for hundreds (3000 thousand, if you ask the Chinese) of years they’ve been doing less “right”.
That’s a very recent addition to western culture. Lots of toys even during my lifetime were dangerous. Two generations back, in the USA we had toys like this which heated up to 260 °C (500 °F):
Which caused serious burns and even some deaths for the children playing with them.
In the 1950s this was a toy:
You’re bringing your perspective of individualism which is very much a Western idea. Other cultures don’t come from that perspective and arrive and different conclusions. I can tell you, we’ll see more of this press up on our western culture as trump continues to flounder our dominance and China continues to rise.
Why are you bothered by China helping North Korea? Also same people being in power isnt inherently wrong until institutions work properly, which seems to be the case in China.
And market and credit card rating people is good but govt doing is bad? lol